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Tag: Christian Dating

246. Navigating the Messiness of Dating as a Christian with Steve and Carrie Bock

Written by Carrie Bock on . Posted in OCD, Podcast Episode.

In this episode, Carrie sits down with her husband Steve to talk honestly about the messy, hopeful, and often awkward road of Christian dating, sharing what they wish someone had told them before they found each other.

Episode Highlights:

  • Why trusting God’s timing in dating can save you from years of heartache and regret
  • How to spot true relationship dealbreakers vs minor preferences when dating with intention
  • What doing your homework before a relationship really means (without becoming a stalker)
  • Why too much texting and long phone calls early in Christian dating can backfire
  • How praying through your list of qualities in a spouse can transform your dating life

Episode Summary:

Why Do So Many Single Christians Feel Invisible in Their Own Church?

I remember sitting in a row of single women on a Sunday morning, looking around and asking where all the single guys even were. Church can be a beautiful place for community, but it can also feel like the loneliest room in the world when everyone around you is paired off with a spouse and kids. Steve and I both lived that awkwardness for years before we found each other, and it shaped how we now try to show up for the singles in our own church family.

What’s the One Piece of Dating Advice That Could Save You Years of Heartache?

Steve has one rule he tells every single person who asks him about dating, and it is not what people expect to hear. It has nothing to do with chemistry or timing and everything to do with the posture you bring into a relationship before it even starts. We both learned this the hard way through years of dating that went nowhere, and it is the one thing we wish someone had drilled into us sooner.

Why Does Waiting for the Right Person Feel Impossible When You Want to Be Married Now?

I once threw a book across the room because it told me healing from divorce would take four years. I did not have four years to spare, or so I thought. What I did not understand yet was how God was using that exact timeline to prepare me for something I could not have handled any earlier, and Steve had his own version of this same lesson during his two decades of singleness.

What’s the Difference Between Doing Your Homework and Becoming a Stalker?

Steve and I do not agree on everything when it comes to vetting someone you are dating, but we both agree you cannot skip this step. There is a real line between paying attention to red flags and turning into someone who hides below a steering wheel in a parking lot, and knowing where that line sits can protect you from years of wasted time with the wrong person.

Can You Really Tell Someone’s Character Before You Marry Them?

We talk about the yellow flags that show up early, long before anyone is ready to admit them, and how the way someone responds when you name a concern tells you almost everything you need to know. Steve shares one specific question he asked on every single first date, something most people never think to bring up, and it ended up being one of his true dealbreakers.

Steve and I get a lot more specific in the full episode, including the prayer list I made before we met, and the story of how our first public photo together blew up online. If you are single, married, or somewhere in between, there is a piece of this conversation for you. Listen to the full episode to hear it all.

Transcript

Carrie: We pray that people are able to be the ones that aren’t supposed to be there are weeded out pretty quickly, and that you’re able to go in eyes open and see that. But so many times, to really get to know somebody’s character, this is true for friendships, to really get to know somebody’s character, it just takes time.

Steve: It takes time. You know? Yeah. One of the questions I got was, “How is it possible that a guy like you,” I’m not sure what that meant, “is still single?” My reply to them was, “I’m just waiting for God to tell me, ‘Hey, this is the right one.'” Yes, you have to put yourself out there. Yes, you have to date, but I didn’t wanna be desperate

Carrie: Welcome OCD warriors to the Christian Faith and OCD podcast, where we are all about reducing shame and stigma of struggling with OCD as a Christian, sharing hopeful stories, and replacing uncertainty with faith as you develop practical tools for greater peace.

I’m Carrie Bock, Christ follower, wife, mom, and licensed professional counselor in Tennessee. I pray you are blessed by today’s episode Welcome, everyone. This is gonna be the first podcast in a series of relationship podcasts that we’re doing for Christian Faith and OCD. I’m excited to bring my husband along for today’s show.

Welcome.

Steve: Thank you. Thank you. It’s good to be back.

Carrie: You wanna introduce yourself?

Steve: Husband. I am Steve. That’s not your name. Oh, darn it. I thought it was. I am Steve Bock.

Carrie: He’s a bit of a character.

Steve: That is my title, Steve Bock, Bit of a Character. Perfect.

Carrie: This is about as real as it gets. We’re recording in our living room right now, and the neighbors are getting their lawn done.

Steve: Yes, the glorious sounds of weed eating.

Carrie: And then our cats are around, and so we’re just hoping that they’ll be quiet. If not, we’re gonna have to pause this and cart them to the bonus room or something and kinda lock them in, so. Right. But right now they’ve finally reached their kinda chill, let’s relax and lay down state, so that’s good.

Steve: Yes.

Carrie: They can be a little talkative. But I wanted to bring you on the show. Every year we usually do a podcast together around our anniversary, so- Mm-hmm … happy six years early. Yes. And we’ve talked about all kinds of different things for those who haven’t been around a while. Way back on episode 10, before I even officially had a podcast, we recorded an episode together about our dating journey, and then- Mm-hmm

we recorded some ones later on for, like, our first and second anniversary ’cause we had just so many things that happened in the first few years of our marriage, lots of some sad stuff, but God’s redeeming those things. Mm-hmm. So anyway, I thought that for this season, I really wanted to do an episode just encouraging the Christian singles out there who are in the messiness of dating, ’cause we both dated each other.

We were full-grown adults, and I was 36, and you were-

Steve: 82.

Carrie: No, 45- … when we met. And so we had kind of, you know, been around for a little while, kind of dated. You got set up with some people. I met some people through meetup groups, dated here and there, and done the online dating thing. We’ve had some experience in this area, and definitely we both have a heart for single people in the church because you were single for probably- Ever

close to 20 years at least. Yeah. And in between, and I was only single for about four years, but it was a long four years in between getting divorced and then meeting you. Mm-hmm. It was a rough time. It can be very lonely for single people- Sure … in the church. We try to watch out for single people, and Steve is forever inviting the new single people he meets-

at church to sit by us. I don’t think they’ve taken us up on it.

Steve: Not one of them has yet. I think they think I’m a weirdo or… I say more to the guys. If I’m talking with a female, I’ll say, “My wife is right there, so you can come sit with us if you like.” Try to explain a little, but I try not to do it in a way that makes them feel like a big sympathy case or something.

Carrie: Yeah, and eventually if they stay around and take the time to get to know us and our story, they’ll understand- Sure … kind of why we try to target, in a way- Right … like, in a good way, target-

Steve: Right …

Carrie: single people in church and watch out for them because it can be very lonely when you’re in a environment obviously that’s promoting families and children and you feel like, “Okay, I don’t quite fit into this realm-

Steve: Right

Carrie: that’s being promoted.”

Steve: Which was almost always. You always have that in the back of your mind. There are a few extroverts, I don’t think anything bothers them.

Carrie: Mm.

Steve: But for the not so extroverted, it’s often awkward. I can think of different things, specifically at church with the family gatherings or you go to a…

I don’t even know if they do this much anymore, but some churches probably do, but the dinner after church, the lunch after church, and everybody kinda will sit with their family, and you’re like, “Boy, I gotta find a place to sit And usually I found somewhere, but it, that could be a challenge at times, so.

Carrie: And so many people want you to get married in the church- Yes … or they want to try and set you up with somebody, or maybe they don’t really know, like, how to help you along on that journey-

Steve: Yeah …

Carrie: of, okay, yes, I do want to be married, but what does it look like to support someone who’s single? And so you may need to even just educate some people, especially if they got married young and they’ve- Mm-hmm

been married a long time, of, like, how they can support you. And I think that’s one thing that I wanna bring into this episode, is to say I think it’s really healthy and helpful if you’re single to get around some married people. So often we go to church, and we’re just in our little silos, and the married people are with the married people, and the moms are with the moms, the elderly people are with the elderly people.

And one of the beautiful things about church is that we have the opportunity potentially to be so intergenerational and to learn from different ages and- Mm-hmm … stages and walks of life. Sometimes when you just have all the single people siloed together, there can be some unhealthy dynamics within the church, and I’ve seen that in the past and have heard from others.

Have you seen that as well in church?

Steve: Y- yes.

Carrie: Um, sometimes there are people in there that don’t know how to relationship, or there’s some significant brokenness, and they can be kind of bleeding that out onto other people, and it would be helpful to have, whether you’re that person or whether you’re another person, be helpful to have somebody kind of come alongside you and help with healthy relationship skills.

What do you feel like if you could give kind of one top recommendation for the Christian singles out there who say, “Hey, I wanna be married,” but it’s kinda like the Wild Wild West out here, it’s a bit of a nightmare, what advice or encouragement would you give to them?

Steve: Don’t be desperate. Don’t do that.

That’s good advice. Because that’s the best way to get yourself in a mess. Mm-hmm. You take the first one that comes along or the one that is most attractive to you from the outside, and you never figure out what they’re like on the inside or whatever. And be patient. God knows what you need. You don’t have to rush the process.

And I can’t tell you how many times from people in church I would hear, “Just, dude, she’s single, you’re single. That’s the perfect reason to get together, right?” That’s like, no. But take the time to get to know them, and make yourself a list of this is what I have to have. She has to be a Christian, or for girls, for the female audience, he has to be a Christian.

Do you want children? Do you want… Figure out those things that you’re musts, and then your other things like, “I’d kinda like it if they weren’t taller than me,” or whatever those things are. But can you get past that? I mean, those are- Those are a

Carrie: little

Steve: bit more- … secondary …

Carrie: minor.

Steve: And then if you’re really hung up on, “Oh, no, they have to have blue eyes,” well, you’re probably gonna be single for life because those things are probably your hangups.

Carrie: I think that there’s a sense of having certain standards. Yeah. And as a Christian, I think this podcast audience really draws a certain level of people who aren’t just casually about their faith. They’re really trying to seek someone who’s in the Word, who is, has spiritual practices- Right … who’s praying- Right

who is in church. And I know that, like, when you take that list of what you’re looking for in a spouse, and you pray through it, like, there’s something really powerful about that. And I don’t think this principle just applies to looking for a mate. I mean, I think it can apply to looking for a job. It can apply to looking for a house.

Like, praying through specific things that you’re looking for, and then when you see those things, like, bam, there it is. Like, this is the exact thing that I’ve been praying for, and I see it now. And so one of my prayers was for a man who loved the church because when I was single, we actually took a picture one day, a Sunday morning.

There was, like, a whole row of single women, and we were like, “Where are the single guys here?” Yeah. “Where are they? They’re not in church.” Or they would come to church maybe casually every once in a while. Like, I just didn’t see the dedication to the body of Christ. Yeah. So when you and I started talking, in one of our early conversations, you were, like, leaving a church event that you had volunteered at, and I was like, “Oh, this is a good sign.”

Like, it’s a good start. And then I started learning more about, like, your involvement and past involvement and present involvement in the church, and I was like, “Oh- Mm-hmm … this is the kind of person, like, I wanna be connected with.” I don’t wanna be linked up with somebody that on a Sunday morning is like, “Yeah, let’s just sleep in, honey.

I don’t really feel like going today.” That was an important piece that I had specifically prayed for. Were there things that you remember that you specifically prayed for in a spouse?

Steve: Yeah. I say that ’cause I’m trying not to be funny, but truthfully, I hope she can cook. And you can. You’re a great cook. Uh, but I say I hope because I didn’t want that to be the hang-up.

If you were a terrible cook, it would’ve still been okay.

Carrie: You just got extra blessed.

Steve: I got extra blessed. Aw. That’s right. But yes, there were definitely the fact that church was important to you, that you understood missions to some extent because you had been on a mission trip before. I’d had people tell me, “Steve, if you only take your time off of work to do mission trips, how are you ever going to take time to be with a girlfriend?”

And I thought that was ridiculous, but I heard that a lot. But that’s my calling. I mean, if whoever I’m supposed to be with, she’s gotta be okay with missions, period. That was a big prayer, too, and of course, you’re very supportive of that.

Carrie: Yeah, and I had been on a couple while I was single. That’s a really interesting thing.

I got divorced, and I went having foster children, having a husband, having these responsibilities, having a job, you know, where I had to take time off from, and then I landed in a season where I was self-employed, so I had more freedom and more flexibility and time, and I didn’t have the family responsibilities.

And I said… It was, like, the year that I got divorced, I didn’t go on a mission trip that year. I went the, the following year. But I remember processing and saying, like, in my time with the Lord, it’s like, “What excuse do I have at this point? I literally don’t have any excuses except for maybe financial.” I wasn’t in, like, a stellar financial space, but I just had really supportive family members who helped pay for that trip and sent out support letters, and it was like, bam.

Mm-hmm. It was there. Yeah. And so I just say that also to encourage the single people. It’s like make the most of your season- Yeah, absolutely … whatever

Steve: God is

Carrie: calling you to do, and that’s really what the Bible tells us. Mm-hmm. It’s like, okay, you don’t have those family responsibilities, like, to your immediate household.

See, like, how can I use this extra time in service for the Lord? And we know it’s also challenging today’s day and age just being a single person and providing for yourself, too, so we understand that ’cause we both had multiple jobs at different points, like-

Steve: Yes …

Carrie: when we were single.

Steve: And I think, too, on that, when you’re taking that season to do the things that you feel called to do, do them, and be diligent because the person that you’re looking for and hoping for and praying for is going to see that.

That’s what’s going to attract them. Much like with you, you wanted a Christian, and when you were looking at my profile, you and your family noted that I did missions. Now, had I not taken the time to do those missions while I was single, we may have never gotten together. You might’ve looked and said, “Man, that bald dude is way too old for me.”

D- um-

Carrie: Just imagine a picture of Steve with a bunch of- … non-white children all around him, and- … and you’re like, “Yeah, that’s pretty much a mission trip photo right

Steve: there.” And that’s important. That was what was important to me. So do what’s important to you, and whoever you’re looking for, that’s maybe how they’re gonna find you.

They’re gonna see a picture of you or a, I don’t know, they’ll hear about you or something doing what it is you love and what God’s called you to do.

Carrie: I just wanna say too, I think that people say, “Well, how gonna meet this person?” Here’s how you’re not gonna meet them. You’re not gonna meet them by going to work, going home, shutting yourself in your house and watching Netflix, and never getting out and meeting people.

I, this is coming from an introvert, guys. I am actually an introvert. Like, I love people, but they also can be really draining at times. I’m going to a networking event this Thursday, and it’s, like, I enjoy it, but I’m dead by the end because it’s a bunch of new people I don’t know, you know, really well.

It’s a bigger people. It’s loud in there. There’s a lot going on. I know some people have different feelings about online dating. That’s how a lot of people are meeting now. But even when outside of online dating, I mean, you go to church, like, if you have any kind of social groups that you’re a part of.

Maybe a lot of the young people are playing pickleball now. We’ve talked about this. So maybe you can meet somebody on the pickleball court. You can meet somebody at a bowling alley.

Steve: A lot of the young people. You’ve hit that age, dear

Carrie: When you’re in your 40s- 40s … 20 feels really young. Yeah, sorry, Dad.

Sorry. There’s different ways. I went to meetup groups. There was a Christian singles meetup group, and I actually kinda sorta went on a couple dates, few dates through there. Nothing that ever stuck or any… We did end up meeting online, but I think that there are a lot of different ways to meet people, and even if you say, “Oh, but everybody around me is married.

Everybody at work is married. Everybody at whatever club you’re in, they’re all married,” that’s okay because if you make your intentions known to those people, just put it out there and say, “Hey, I’m looking to date. If you know anybody, because you know me really well, and so if you run across somebody else that’s single that you think that I would really click with, then I would be open to at least talking to that person.”

Now, that doesn’t mean that it’s

Steve: gonna

Carrie: work out. Yeah You know,

Steve: if it’s not- And you don’t have to tell everyone that. Just because-

Carrie: Right …

Steve: the sweet old lady at church has a daughter or granddaughter doesn’t mean the daughter or granddaughter’s a sweet person, too. You can get in a lot of trouble that way, and some people, they may be the nicest of people, but they don’t align with you as well.

So be careful on that because maybe you work with somebody who’s not a Christian, but they have the best of intentions. “My neighbor or whoever would be a good setup for you,” and then you find out that they’re something terrible, or they’re just maybe not terrible, but they don’t line up at all with what you want, and then you’ve gotta go explain to your coworker or whoever it is, “No, we don’t match.

I’m sorry.” And it’s an awkward conversation.

Carrie: Yeah, I know that you experienced more setups than I did. Oh

Steve: my goodness, yes.

Carrie: I think I had some recommendations, but I don’t think I ever went on, like, a date from somebody setting me up.

Steve: Let me tell you, I would go to church, and there was at least one time that I can think of, no, twice, where someone brought their niece, and another time someone brought their, I think it was their granddaughter, to church specifically to meet me.

Do you know how awkward that is? That’s a lot of pressure.

Carrie: So let’s go into the actual dating advice-

Steve: Mm-hmm …

Carrie: then. When you’re in these initial get-to-know-you experiences, first of all, even when we were dating and now, there’s a lot of texting that happens. Yeah, mm-hmm. So I just wanna talk about texting for a moment because that’s not the best way to get to know somebody.

You can kind of hear some things here and there, but obviously- You’re missing tone of voice- Right … you’re missing eye contact. Text messaging is great for like, “Hey, can you pick up some milk on the way home?” Yeah. It’s not really the best for getting to know- No … or, “Hey, can we meet at 5:00 PM at the local restaurant?”

Steve: Well, everything may sound great on the text, and then you meet them and you find out that, oh, they are… Maybe sarcasm isn’t your thing, and you find out everything they say is sarcastic or whatever the case may be. You’re not really getting to know them through a text.

Carrie: Well, and sometimes they don’t look like their picture.

I had that happen. They

Steve: never do.

Carrie: Uh, yeah. At

Steve: least with me. And that, I don’t say that negative- Me … in a negative way.

Carrie: Sure.

Steve: But-

Carrie: I think this person only had one picture, too, so I think had they had multiple pictures- Yeah … I probably would’ve gotten a better… And so then when I saw them in person, I was like, “Oh, man, I’m not really as attracted to them as I- Right

thought that I was going to be.”

Steve: Everyone puts their best facade up, how they want you to think of them.

Carrie: Right, and I’m sure it’s probably worse now because with AI and different things, people can probably- Oh, my goodness … slim out the areas they don’t like.

Steve: That’s funny.

Carrie: So I would say don’t spend a ton of time texting back and forth.

Try to see if you can get something either to a phone call or an in-person coffee shop meeting so that you can actually have some face-to-face time to get to know that person- And taking it slow is a really huge thing. I broke one of the advice rules that I was given- … about not having long phone calls when we were talking initially.

So that was my bad. But I was advised not to have super long phone calls and super long conversations. Hmm. And because you really want to get to know that person on an interactive level. How do they handle things that frustrate them? You’re looking at, like, do they get emotional easily? Or, not that that’s a bad thing, but it’s just, like, things you want to kind of understand.

Do they keep everything- Right … under wraps or kind of try to hide or skirt certain issues you wanna talk about? So those types of things, how they treat other people, how they’re interactive in group settings, how they are around church versus when they’re at the coffee shop versus when they’re with their parents.

I mean, like, there’s different dynamics that you wanna see. And also, you want these things to just un- be able to naturally unfold over time. I think especially for people who are struggling with OCD, it’s like they wanna know right now. They wanna have some certainty. Mm-hmm. Am I gonna marry this person?

Am I not? And I think some of the reason for that is they hear these stories. Your dad has this story of he saw your mom, and he was like, “I’m gonna marry that woman.” Yep. And that wasn’t my story. I don’t think it was your story. No. For many, many other people, I would say that’s atypical. It does happen to some people.

Sure. It does work for them. Sure. Your parents are still together. But for most people, you don’t know, like, right away, like, “Oh, yes- No … I’m gonna marry that person.” All you need to know at this point is, “Do I wanna keep talking to them? Would I go on another date with them?” That’s pretty much all you need- Yeah

to know in the very early- Yeah … stages.

Steve: And do your homework. It’s not that you’re stalking them, but do your homework because you might find something out after you’ve been dating for a good while that, oh my goodness, or maybe that’s a bad example. Maybe-

Carrie: No, there was a guy that I went on- Mm-hmm … a few dates with, and I found out he was a smoker.

Steve: Yeah.

Carrie: And that was, like, a total deal breaker for me. Yeah. And I couldn’t believe it ’cause he never smo- I was like, man, he hid that really well ’cause he never smelled- Yeah … like cigarette smoke. I mean, I don’t know what the extent of his smoking habit was. Maybe he just did it, I don’t know, casually in the evenings or something.

But I found that out, and I was like, “Oh, gosh.” And I was immediately… I never followed up or we just- Do your homework … cut communication at that point.

Steve: I would say, though, in doing your homework, I don’t think sitting at their job, hunkered down low below the steering wheel watching them. That’s stalking.

Don’t do that. Don’t do that. But if you wanna go look up social media and see if they’re on social media- Do it. If you go to get a job, they’re gonna look up your information. They’re not supposed to, but they will. Maybe that’s too far, I don’t know, but find something out. I

Carrie: think ours was kinda funny because we met on Facebook Dating.

Yeah. Like, so we met on social media, so then

Steve: when we- The only successful couple. I’m just kidding.

Carrie: When we put a picture up, like our first picture that we were dating, so many people commented and they’re like, “Oh my gosh, Steve’s such a great guy. Like, that’s so wonderful. Like, we’re so happy for you.” So it was just really sweet to see.

We got, like, validated in a way that I feel like we wouldn’t have- Yeah, that’s right … had we not been on social media, but you can’t trust everything you see- Yeah … on the internet. However, like you want to be around, get to know their friends over time, have them get to know your friends. And for me personally, I didn’t mind doing that pretty early because there was a guy that…

I just kind of invited people into my normal phase of life, and I think it probably depends on how you meet them. This was a person that I had met in person at a Christian singles meetup, and I invited him to my friend’s son was having a football game, we were all gonna go, and then we went out to dinner afterwards.

It was just kind of a casual thing, and that, like, blew up the relationship. Like that one date, he didn’t think I was paying enough attention to him. He nitpicked the whole thing.

Steve: Hmm.

Carrie: And I was like, “This doesn’t sound great.” And I went and followed up with my marriage coach people. And I said, “Did something wrong?

Like, what happened here?” And they were like, “No, this is not okay.” I was like, “Okay, well.” I found out pretty fast that that person I think struggled with some relationship skills and some expectations that weren’t communicated- Hmm … and all those types of things. So you pray that people are able to be, the ones that aren’t supposed to be there are weeded out pretty quickly, and that you’re able to go in eyes open and see that.

But so many times, to really get to know somebody’s character, this is true for friendships, to really get to know somebody’s character, it just takes time.

Steve: Takes time. You know? Yeah. One of the questions I got often was, “How is it possible that a guy like you,” not sure what that meant, “is still single? It’s been a long time, Steve.

What’s going on here?” You can just imagine the comments I got from that. Hmm. But my reply to them was, “I’m just waiting for God to tell me, ‘Hey, this is the right one.'” Yes, you have to put yourself out there. Yes, you have to date. But I didn’t wanna be desperate, and I always felt like- Whoever the girl that I was dating was, or whoever the right girl would’ve been, Miss Carrie- ‘Cause that’s not what I called you, Miss Carrie.

That, that’d be creepy. But, like, you hearing that, which you didn’t ask that, I don’t think, but I think that’s almost a compliment. Like, I’m waiting for the right one, and maybe you would’ve thought, “Oh, he’s been waiting on me all this time.” Whatever. I don’t know.

Carrie: How I thought about it was I was like, “How in the world is a man who loves the Lord like this, and who is a responsible human, and nicely dressed,” I was like-

“How in the world is this guy still single? He’s attractive.” I was like, “I’m gonna bag this guy up.” “I’m gonna cook for him real good.” Yeah. “I’m gonna win him over.” Like, you know.

Steve: And you did. You did a good job of it. But I also worked a lot. I didn’t put myself- Yeah … out there all the time. But I was picky. I was, in a good way, though, I think.

I don’t know. Some people said, “Steve, you’re way too picky.” But a lot of the people saying that were saying that when I lived in a small town before I moved to Nashville, and they would say things. I don’t think it’s too picky to ask for a Christian. I don’t think that’s… In fact, I think that’s-

Carrie: That’s, that’s biblical.

Steve: Yeah, that word. And one that everything didn’t have to be perfect, however, I wanted a good Christian. I wanted someone responsible. I don’t know. I wanted her to go to church. Those things were important to me. If that makes me too picky, then maybe being single would’ve been okay, too. That was my take on it.

Carrie: Yeah. And I say, too, as far as, like, it takes time because if somebody is dealing with something like an addiction, like I’d said, even the cigarette situation, you, like, you may not know. Like, they may kinda hide that for a long time. Sure. Somebody could be in a wreck of debt, and you’re not gonna know that right away.

Mm-hmm. And so I know sometimes people with OCD, what I’ve seen, like, have some relationship obsessions, they can get really obsessed about time as well. Like, “I don’t wanna waste time doing this.” But I would say even in these relationships that don’t work out, like hear me on this, God’s still using that for your good.

Mm-hmm. And God is still teaching you things through it. Yeah. And through that process. So don’t see it as wasted time. You’re learning how to be in a relationship. You’re learning how to discern. You’re learning to listen to God. You’re learning to take healthy, godly feedback from other people in your life, and all of that is really valuable.

I think to that end, if you are a person who says, “Hey, I have a bunch of debt,” or, “I have problems with pornography,” or, “I have communication issues, I just fly off the handle really quickly,” we all have the stuff, like, that we have to work on. Mm-hmm. And being single, you can still work on relationship skills even if it’s not your season to be in a relationship.

Maybe God has told you, “Take a year off.” You’ve got no business being in a relationship. You don’t need to be dating right now. I probably jumped back into dating earlier than I should have after my divorce. I think I needed a little bit more time to heal, but I think other people around me were kind of like, “Yeah, move on.

You’re good.” And they didn’t really know kind of the depths- Yeah … of some things that were going on. The first time I tried to date after the divorce, it did not go well because I think I wasn’t in a good space, and I don’t think I would have stayed in that relationship as long had I been at a healthier place.

I would have said, “Hey, we’re not really a match. This is not really gelling,” ’cause we weren’t really a good fit. Mm. So just kind of like being self-aware and knowing, like, how can I become the person that my person is looking for? How can I grow closer to God and work through some of these issues in my own life so that it doesn’t become a stumbling block when I do get engaged and married?

Because it’s an issue now, it’s gonna be an issue later.

Steve: For sure. Right after my divorce, I made a deal with myself that I would not date for two years, and the first year was to kind of heal, and the second year was to find myself again, to figure out, well, now who am I? And let me tell you, those first two years, I had more opportunity to date than the next 18 years I felt like.

And I thought, “Lord, what kind of deal is this? I’m missing every single… Like, wow, was this the right decision?” But in the end, I was so happy that I did that, because it made me a stronger person. And again, like I said to start with, don’t be desperate. I think it would’ve been a desperate measure on my part just to not be single.

Finding the right person isn’t gonna be found by desperate. Like, I don’t wanna be single is never a good thing for dating.

Carrie: I wanna say, too, that just be careful about how you’re communicating with… When you’re in the early stages of dating, this is what females tend to do. I don’t think males tend to do this, but females are like, “Oh, you went out with somebody?”

Like, “Tell me everything that happened. Like, how did he eat with his fork?” I mean, it was just like all kinds of things and, you know- Hmm … “Does he want kids, and what about this?” And sometimes I’ll be like, “We haven’t gotten that far yet. Like, I don’t even know the answer to that question.” You know, people would just wanna know everything and pick apart everything they said and did.

Sure. Which is a horrible thing to do when you first meet somebody because you’re not at that comfort level where you feel like you can be yourself. You’re both a little awkward still, and you want to just kind of take it easy. So I would say don’t go to all of your single… If you’re a lady, don’t go to all, all your single lady friends and start psychoanalyzing the guy.

That’s probably one of the worst things for you to do, especially if you have OCD, ’cause it could bring up some obsessions and things that you’re gonna get really stuck on- Hmm … that could hinder that dating and relationship process. Yeah. And you don’t wanna do that.

Steve: And it’s not wrong to talk about the date with someone.

Yeah. Just the psychoanalyze part, I think.

Carrie: Mm-hmm.

Steve: Yeah.

Carrie: It- ‘

Steve: Cause I know that I had- Not good … a pastor that would ask me, “How’s the dating life, Steve?” And that was so awkward With the pastor, but he was genuine. He really wanted to know. And as a whole, I don’t think guys really sit around, like, talking that way in the same amount of depth and detail-

Carrie: As the females

Steve: as the females. I know that I was different. I was pretty guarded. I kept things pretty close. I’m still kinda that way, so I don’t tell everything.

Carrie: I kind of alluded to this, that I essentially had some really great marriage mentors in my life at the time. They were involved in the singles ministry. They had been divorced.

Both had been through some rough divorce situations, and they had gotten remarried. BJ and Christine were their names, and I’m just so thankful for BJ and Christine, ’cause I could go to them, and they had already been through what I had been through, so I could walk them through some things that I was experiencing, and they learned a lot in their own dating process.

They would definitely tell you that. And I could say, okay, they could be very objective with me. Also, when you’re getting advice from people like your parents, they’re super invested, and they’re not gonna give you that same objectivity. Mm-hmm. So it’s nice if you can have, take your, uh, dating advice from marriage people, people who are already married or who have been through some of the things that you’ve been through so that they can lead and guide you in that process.

And I hope that you and I can do that for somebody who someday just- Yeah, I hope

Steve: so …

Carrie: be able to speak into their healthy dating life of just take things slowly, take it one day at a time. Don’t try to jump to any conclusions about anybody. We get into trouble when we jump to conclusions and we make assumptions.

I mean, that still comes up sometimes- Yeah … in our relationship. I’m like, “Well, you think this, and you were trying to do,” and you’re like, “I wasn’t even trying to do that. What

Steve: are you talking

Carrie: about?”

Steve: Well, and too, I would say if you meet someone, and you have, like you said, those mentors in your life or someone, like you wanna introduce them to your parents or your grandma or whoever, on that first date, that thought might wanna go through your mind.

Like, those who I really admire and trust-

Carrie: And respect, yeah …

Steve: are they gonna be totally disappointed with this choice, and why? Because it’s like if they think it’s something minor, “Oh, I don’t like her hair,” or whatever, eh, you can get over that, but they’re not equally yoked, those kinds of things, then that’s probably not a good choice for you.

And a lot of that stuff you’re gonna know just from talking even before the first date. Those are definitely things to think about.

Carrie: I want to really wrap this up and to just provide some hope for people who just wonder, “Am I ever gonna get married? I just feel like everything you’re talking about, Carry, I’ve been through it.

I haven’t seen a man that’s passionate for the Lord,” or if you’re a guy, “I haven’t seen a woman who’s passionate for the Lord. I’ve gone on all these dates, but it doesn’t make it past two or three because there’s some kind of deal breaker issue or something that I just know I can’t be connected with, or they’re not willing to proceed for one reason or the other.”

Yeah. What hope would you kinda give to people? ‘Cause you waited a long time.

Steve: I waited a very long time, and it wasn’t like I just sat back and did nothing. I definitely was in prayer about it. I tried to remain positive. And everyone, I think, wants that stereotypical, “We’ve been married for 75 years,” and blah, blah, blah, and I was like, “If I’m married 75 years, I’ll be 100 and…

Yeah, that’s not happening.” That’s not even realistic. I think the better way to look at it is, “Okay, God, you know who the one for me is.” And I pray that I do my part, that I keep myself right for her. When I spend my money, am I going into debt? Because if I’m going into debt, she might not want me now because I’ve got all this debt.

Or being naughty in some way, she’s not gonna want me. Or ladies, I guess I would say the same for you. That person is not gonna necessarily be as attracted to you when you make those poor decisions. So just be patient. Again, don’t be desperate, and just know that God has the one for you.

Carrie: I think, I would say God’s timing is perfect.

I read, actually, like, a book about recovering from divorce, and they had recommended in there different timeframes that people recommend. And they said, “It really probably gonna take you about four years to heal,” and I just chucked the book across the room. I was so

Steve: mad.

Carrie: And I was like, “I can’t wait four years.

I’m not gonna be able to have a kid if I wait four years. Like, I’m gonna be too old,” and this and that. And God knew, like, what I needed, and God knew the process that I needed to go through as a single person. And God uses all your pain for good. Right. So now, like, that’s why we semi-stalk the single people at church.

No, I’m just kidding. We’re, we’re just like, “Hey, you can come sit with us.” But I think it’s important. If we hadn’t have been through that pain of being in the church and having to sit by ourselves- Mm-hmm … or, like, feel awkward when there was, like, family gatherings at church- Yeah … or things of that nature, we wouldn’t have the heart that we have now for single people.

Sure. And had we not been through what we’ve been through, wouldn’t be able to speak into this podcast the way that we are right now. So just understanding that God sees your pain, He knows where you’re at, and He’s gonna turn it around and use it for good. I do believe that if you have a desire to be married, there’s, that desire is in you for some reason, because I’ve certainly met plenty of people that they’re like, “No, I’m good.”

They’re like, “I don’t need to be married. I’m happy where I’m at-” Mm-hmm … like, with my singleness. And that- That’s

Steve: great …

Carrie: that’s fine, too. But I think sometimes people can say, like, “I have this desire to be married, but maybe God just, like, doesn’t want me to be married.” Yeah, no. And I’m like, but you have that desire for a reason.

Right, right. There’s some reason that God has made you.

Steve: Some people are called to be single, but-

Carrie: Sure …

Steve: not all of us are called to be single. You just have to be patient and know that He’s gonna make the perfect setting for you, and the perfect timing, and the perfect da, da, da, da, da. But I think it’s important to just always remember who you are, who do you need to be, what has God made you to be, and keep that right.

And there’s nothing wrong with it. Like, Carrie had a married couple in her life to ask questions. Find those people, maybe at your church or whatever, that you really admire their marriage. I know I had a older couple at church that they were the happiest two people I’d ever met in my life. And they had been on a mission trip or two with me, and in their 70s and still holding hands.

Like, they were just dating. It’s not like 70-year-olds can’t hold hands, it’s just the way that they were giggling and joking, you would have thought they were in their 20s. And I thought, “I want that. That’s great.” So I’d ask them questions. “What’s this?” Or, “How do you do that?” Or, “How did you guys find one another?”

“Do you never argue? What’s the secret? What’s in the sauce?” And there’s nothing wrong with asking those questions because That’s how you grow.

Carrie: Yeah, I mean, we have, like now even at this stage that we’re in where we’re, like trying to figure out how to disciple our daughter on a daily basis, like how to be the parents that we wanna be, man, we have people at church that we look up to.

Yeah. And we’re like, “Those people right there, look at their kids.” Yeah. “They’re respectful, they’re kind, they’re serving the church.” Like, that’s what we wanna follow that path with. Yeah. That’s what we want our daughter to be like.

Steve: Yeah. Which made me think of something else. Don’t be afraid if they’re younger than you.

They’re married and younger and doing well, and they’ve been married for a while, and they’re living a good biblical marriage, ask. Don’t think, “Well, gosh, I’m older. That can’t be right.” No.

Carrie: I think part of the challenge that I’ve heard from people is, oh, it’s almost like the older single people, now they know some people their age that are married, but they’re not in happy marriages.

They almost feel kinda hopeless a little bit too of, “I don’t see that. I don’t see people who are happily married. I just see this destruction or this pain,” or, you know- Mm-hmm … have seen family members, maybe they, they’re coming from a family where the parents were divorced once or twice, and they don’t really have a healthy modeling of relationships.

And I think- Yeah … that’s why building these bridges between the generations in church and making those connections is so important and-

Steve: Yeah, absolutely … so

Carrie: valuable.

Steve: And don’t let that fear guide you. Think, “God’s gonna set me up with the best. I’m gonna be the best,” and roll with that. Because if you let that fear guide you, you might as well not even look, ’cause the fear is gonna outdo the reality in that case- Yeah

you know, if you let it build.

Carrie: I think sometimes people live in a denial, or they have this magical thinking of, “Well, yeah, I see that he has a little bit of problems with this or maybe that.” Mm-hmm. “But, oh, I’m gonna marry him. I’m gonna change him. He’ll grow out of it,” da, da, da, da. Whatever’s going on right now, once you add marriage to it, and especially children, it’s just gonna amplify.

Yeah. And it’s gonna get bigger. So if you’re starting- Yeah … to see some yellow flags, and I think seeing how that person responds who you bring to that forefront where you say, “Hey, I’m concerned about this,” that’s huge.

Steve: Yeah,

Carrie: for sure. You know? I think that that’s a huge turning point. Is it something where they’re moving in a direction of progress to better themselves?

Or, like, are they growing in that area? Are they taking care of business? Or are they at a place where they’re like, “Oh, it’s not that big of a deal. It’s not a huge problem.” “Oh, you’re making something out of nothing” or gets defensive, then I think that that’s definitely something you wanna watch out for.

Steve: And if they won’t pray with you, that’s another one. Maybe not on the first date, but if they- Later

Carrie: on down the road.

Steve: Yeah, later on down the road, you ask, “Hey, can we pray together?” And they’re like, “No,” that might be a-

Carrie: Did you have that happen to you?

Steve: No, but that was in my mind as one of my musts, that even on the first date if I go to pray for lunch or something and they are totally against that, that’s a deal breaker.

Like, “Okay, well, we’ll finish lunch. That was good. Nice to know you.” I mean, thankfully, that didn’t quite happen, but it didn’t happen with you, but still, that’s something to consider, those kinds of things. ‘Cause if it’s really important to you now, it’s gonna be heartbreaking later if you ignore it.

Carrie: Yeah.

And it’s much easier when you’re in a dating phase- To, especially early on, to walk away than it is when-

Steve: Yeah …

Carrie: you’re getting engaged or when you’re married. Obviously, you don’t wanna be walking away at that point. Yeah. You want to make sure that you’re connected with the right person and that it’s somebody that you have things in common, that you’re moving in the same direction.

Mm-hmm. You want the same things. Thanks so much for, uh- Yeah … hanging out with us on the couch today.

Steve: With the cats.

Carrie: With the cats, and unfortunately, we didn’t have, I don’t think, too much noise interference. No. But love all of you guys, and hope that this was helpful for single people- Yeah … out there. We’re gonna have an upcoming episode for the married people on what if you’re married to someone with OCD.

Mm. If you made it through the episode for single people, or maybe you’re single and you’re interested in that, then definitely tune in for that episode in the future. All right, bye everybody.

Steve: See you guys.

Carrie: Hey, if you love the podcast, I know you’re gonna love our email newsletter. It is sent out once a week on Wednesdays when we have new episodes come out.

It’s an opportunity for me to share little devotional thoughts with you about what God is teaching me, and those on our email list are the first to know about things happening with the podcast. So if you’d like to be an email insider, all you have to do is go to carriebock.com and sign up for our email list.

Steve: Until next time, may you be comforted by God’s great love for you. Christian Faith and OCD

Carrie: is a production of By The Well Counseling. Opinions given by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of myself or By The Well Counseling. This podcast is for informational purposes only, and should not be a substitute for seeking mental health treatment in your area.

10. Carrie’s Story of Anxiety in Dating with Now Husband Steve

Written by Carrie Bock on . Posted in Anxiety, Personal Testimony, Podcast Episode. No Comments on 10. Carrie’s Story of Anxiety in Dating with Now Husband Steve

Steve and I recorded this show about a month before our wedding. We talk about my anxiety during the dating process and his involvement in helping me work through it.

Episode Highlights:

  • Anxiety about putting myself out there to date and how that brought me back to therapy 
  • Challenges of Christian dating after a divorce 
  • Accepting the anxiety and difficulty trusting as part of the process of getting closer
  • Advice to singles in the church

Summary:

In this episode, I’m excited to share my story with my husband, Steve Bock, as we discuss my struggles with anxiety during our dating journey. We both faced challenges getting back into the dating world after previous marriages, with experiences of anxious feelings, especially around first dates and sharing our pasts.

We talk about overcoming fears, dealing with the stigma of dating after divorce in the Christian community, and our early dates, which included some funny mishaps like getting lost on a trail. Our journey has been about supporting each other through anxious moments and finding joy in the unexpected, which we hope can encourage others facing similar struggles.

We hope that our story resonates with others who may be facing similar challenges in their dating lives, reinforcing the idea that love can flourish even in the midst of anxiety and uncertainty. Join us as we explore this journey of faith, love, and growth together!

Transcript

Hello and welcome to Christian Faith and OCD.

I am very excited to share this episode with you. Episode 10, because I have my now amazing husband, Steve Bock on the show, and we are going to be talking about how anxious I was during our dating process.

I hope that this story encourages other people maybe who are scared to get out into the dating world, or if you have a partner or a husband, wife who is struggling with anxiety, this episode may help you a little as well as far as how to support them. So without further ado, we’ll dive into the show. So Steve, welcome to the podcast.

Steve: I’m excited to be here. 

Carrie: Steve is normally a kind of behind-the-scenes guy and has done a little bit of public speaking, but tends to serve in the background. So I’m very excited that he is stepping out of his comfort zone a little bit and has agreed to be on the podcast. 

Steve: Yeah, it’s good to be here. Nervous though. 

Carrie: That’s okay cause we’re talking about anxiety, so it’s all good. Your anxiety is welcome.

We are about a month away from getting married. 

Steve: Yey! It is good. 

Anxious About Dating

Carrie: We’re going to talk a little bit about our story and how we came to be a couple. My story actually started a little bit in the beginning of 2019 where I realized that I wanted to get back into dating, but every time I had tried in the past I would get these awful stomach aches.

I was very anxious about putting myself out there in any way, shape, or form. I had done online dating. I had done meetup groups where I had dated here and there with guys and I realized that I wanted to be married and that if I was going to do that, I was going to have to figure out how to work through this high level of anxiety that I had after my divorce about dating again. And so I ended up going to therapy over it and I told my therapist, I want to date but every time I go to do it, it’s just this awful anxiety comes over me. I can’t sleep. I have stomach aches and I just can’t do it. I can’t follow through.

It was really funny because I saw this man online. One of the reasons I went to go see a man was because I wanted a more of a male perspective on dating. I actually was cleaning out my file cabinet and I filled in the paperwork sometime in the fall of 2019 where I had sent this paperwork to him saying, “You know, I want a date, but I just can’t.”

And here’s why when I read that it was so therapeutic for me because I realized like, “Wow. I don’t feel this way anymore.” I was so excited to go to therapy and tell my therapist about finding that paperwork and saying, “Hey, I think I’m actually ready to date.” I think it’s time for me to put myself out there and I made the decision that I was going to try dating apps again. I got on a dating app and I had went on a few dates with a couple of different guys, but I just was a little bored and didn’t feel like I was making a good connection with the guys that I was meeting. This little heart kept popping up on Facebook every day when I would go in and it would say, “Try Facebook dating.”

I was like, “I don’t know about that. I’m not sure” but I thought, well, “shoot.” I’m not having any luck on this other app that I’m using so I might as well give it a try. 

So what was your pre-us meeting story? 

Steve: My pre-Carrie story is somewhat similar as far as the dating goes. I had a lot of people from church trying to set me up and those are always difficult because it doesn’t work out. You don’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings but oftentimes it just didn’t, just something was missing. So that didn’t work and then I tried the online dating apps just like you and I thought here I am spending this money and getting nowhere.

So for me, I struggle my anxiety kicks in on that first date which I guess I’m not the only one that goes through that. I don’t think but just the same, it was very difficult. 

There came a point where Facebook actually emailed me and said, “Hey, we’re gonna start an online dating service that will be free through Facebook and we’re interested in you. You have a nice Facebook page or whatever. It’s clean-cut, and there’s nothing terrible on it. So we wanted to know if you’re interested” and I thought, Wow! I’ve never actually gotten a thing from Facebook like that. I was a little bit special.

So I said, “Whoa, what have I got to lose? Why not?” And then after I said, yes, I thought, Oh gosh, what have I gotten myself into? I didn’t even look at what type of dating is this. What are they going to do? What are they going to ask of me and it wasn’t that bad. They asked me a series of questions and had me fill out the basics. Who am I? Where am I? All the normal stuff that you do on a dating app. So that made me feel good and then they said it might be a while. Well, I’d practically given up on the idea of it after waiting for like three months or something. maybe longer than that, but finally that little heart popped up and I started getting messages and, and then not long after there you were.

And so that’s where it all began. 

How Steve and Carrie Found Each Other

Carrie: Yeah and we found out amazingly that we had a lot in common. We grew up about an hour away from each other in Florida. Even though we’re in Tennessee now. We had both been on mission trips and now we’re talking about mission trips and food and restaurants and other things we enjoyed together. So that was a lot of fun. We had a couple of phone calls and you talked a lot. 

Steve: Yes. Do you want to talk about that? Well, ironically, you’re asking me if I talk a lot and to talk about it. I am one of those people that if I don’t know you or I’m in a big crowd, I probably won’t say much. It’s difficult when it’s like, “Hey Steve, this is a girl and you have to talk to her” and my mind goes, “Nope, don’t want to say a thing,” but then as you get comfortable, as I get comfortable, I had so much to talk about because I hadn’t shared anything with anybody in so long. So all I wanted to do was talk. I thought, “Wow! This woman, she’s a good listener.”

Well, little did I know you get paid to do that? I guess I knew, but anyways, you were easy to talk to. You are easy to talk to and a great listener. 

Carrie: The really scary thing came for me of having to tell Steve that I was divorced because we hadn’t gotten to that part yet in our chats online or over the phone.

Steve: That didn’t bother me because I had the same issue and so the reaction you had was I kind of “felt bad for you cause you’d gotten yourself kind of worked up about it” like worried, and then I’m like, “Nah, it’s not a deal-breaker at all.” You know, I was married too. So that gave us something in common. So it kind of worked in our favor.

Tips for Dating After Divorce

Carrie: There is some stigma in the Christian church when you’re dating and you’re divorced. It’s scary because I did have men say to me, “Hey, I need to pray about this for a few days.” That happened to me at least twice and you’re going to say, “okay, go pray about it.” My conscience is clear with God.

I don’t know. He’s going to have to communicate that to you one way or the other, or I need to know everything that happened and I need to know why it ended. So I guess if I would add just a word of advice thrown out there for people who are dating, if you haven’t been divorced, and you’re potentially dating people who are divorced, give it time for that story to unfold because often that story is pretty personal and pretty intimate like reasons why people’s marriages ending. Sometimes depending on how long it’s been since that point a lot of times those things aren’t relevant anymore at this level. Would you agree with that?

Steve: Without going into details, our stories were so similar, at least with me. I felt like people would come to a conclusion of, there’s gotta be a reason he’s divorced. What did he do? Maybe that’s not what they were thinking but that’s the feeling that I had from them. People, you can’t just jump out there and judge them like that because you don’t know and like you say, give them some time. 

Carrie: Right. I think one of the things that you told me that I felt was very healing was that it takes two people to get married but it only takes one person to get divorced and in both of our situations, it wasn’t our choice. That wasn’t something that we wanted to do and we would have held on and done what we could to make it work, but there was no repair at that point.

Steve And Carrie’s Funny Date Story

Carrie: So then we branched out and met up for a first date at?

Steve: Plaza Mariachi, which if you’ve never been to a place like that. That is a wonderful place for a first date because it’s open. It’s easy to find and there’s so much going on. It offers you a pretty good place to sit and talk, although it did get a bit loud.

Carrie: Yeah. So Plaza Mariachi, for those of you who aren’t in the Nashville area, they basically took an old grocery store and they converted it into kind of an open mall concept. They’ve got a food court and they’ve got, you can get ice cream or tacos or coffee. They also have little shops kind of on the side but one thing that’s really fun that they have is performances. So, Steve, I was like, “okay, will you tell me a little bit more about your salvation story?” So he’s telling me, and he’s going through the process and of course, that’s kind of serious and then all of a sudden I just screamed, “fire!” Because all of a sudden, there’s this guy out in the middle of the food court, throwing around fire and breathing fire and all of this stuff. 

Steve: Which I can’t see by the way. 

Carrie: Because you’re back was to it. 

Steve: Which seems when you’re given a little bit of your testimony, it doesn’t seem so wonderful when somebody else “fire” like, “Wow. I thought my story was good” but maybe I need to pray and start over here. 

Carrie: So our second date, we got lost on a trail. 

Steve: Yes. Mainly because they were doing some work on the trail and they didn’t mark the reroute. So we just kind of literally walked way past it. 

Carrie: We missed the detour or something on the way back [01:00:37] and it’s getting closer to getting dark. This was in the late fall and it was getting dark earlier and so finally we decided to pull up the map and realize we are way down South and we need to get back up the other way to our car. So fortunately that date went well because otherwise, that would have been a long walk back to the car.

Steve: That would have been very difficult. I have to walk back that far with a person you don’t want to be with, that wouldn’t be good, but that was a good test for us because that was kind of a moment where it could have went either way. We’re together and got a few laughs and it was worth it. It was good. 

Carrie: I think the coffee shop type date is good when you’re first getting to know somebody because you can leave in a short amount of time or something, but it’s nice to be able to do things with people, to look at stuff, and see how they interact around other people and also how they interact with you. And we had to problem solve on a date too. So that was actually good. 

Steve: Definitely. I thought it was an easy deal. Just walk this way and make a turn and come back and you’re done. 

Carrie: Yeah, there was a snafu on date three. 

Steve: Yes, which wasn’t all my fault. 

Carrie: No, it was not. You want to share what happened?

Steve: Yeah. I think you had suggested the place and I thought,” Oh yeah, I think I’ve been there.” That’s a great place, I think. That sounds good. The deal is to make it short and simple. There are two restaurants on the same road, not what four miles apart, I think same name. Both of them are Mexican restaurants.

They are almost identical. So I call her and I’m like, “well, I’m here just waiting” and she said, “I’m here at the table.” Wait like, “Oh no.”

That’s when we discovered we were both at a restaurant with the same name on the same street but it was not the same restaurant. So I had to find her. I went to the wrong one, by the way, not her.

Carrie: So that was fun and then we went to go see the Opera Land Hotel where they decorate everything for Christmas, really nice. We just walked around there and we took our first picture together and that was sweet. So time went on in our relationship and we were talking on a regular basis and we were seeing each other a couple of times a week.

Getting To Know Each Other Better

Carrie: One thing that you did relatively early on in our relationship was made a decision to take a night off work per week because you were working in the evenings and I think that was a big sign to me that you were interested in kind of moving the relationship forward.

Steve: For me, any relationship that I had with friends, that was the problem is that I work way too much in my mind. I thought if I’m going to make this work because I do like this girl, and if I’m going to make this work, I don’t think working all the time is going to help our relationship. You can’t just see one another here and there and expect it to work and only do the phones. So I knew I had to take a night off to make that work. I think that benefited us a lot. 

Carrie: Yeah, it really did. I think it kept me going forward because I don’t know if I can do a one-day-a-week relationship or just have a weekend relationship with somebody. I want to get to know them more and have it go deeper.

Seeing A Therapist To Cope With Dating Anxiety

Carrie: So things progressed along and I was working with my therapist off and on but I started to have these awful nightmares.

They would be things like, I went to go catch a flight and I get to the ticket counter and I’ve missed my flight and the lady is saying, “I’m sorry, Ma’am, there’s nothing that we can do for you. You didn’t get here in time” or I didn’t make it to a concert that I had tickets to.

As I was talking through these nightmares with my therapist, I realized that they all had this kind of common theme and it was okay, I’m gonna like royally screw this relationship up and it’s going to be my fault. Something’s going to go bad and it’s going to be on me.

I just decided to tell Steve about these nightmares that I was having and be really honest about it. I’m nervous like I’m getting closer to you and that feels really vulnerable and really scary because I don’t want to get hurt again.

Understanding Your Partner’s Fear and Anxiety

Steve: Absolutely and when you told me, I got it. I can’t say that it was my dream but I completely wanted to understand you. That would be horrible to have to go through that and have that dream and that fear and that anxiety. So for me, I thought the best thing to do was to just be patient and wait.

Carrie: Yeah. I know that my therapist helped me realize that it was tied back to some past stuff and then I was in a different place in my life. I was an adult and I really could protect myself if I needed to. Something about what we processed and me coming to that conclusion of “Oh, okay. I’m actually safe.” Not only am I safe but I can also protect myself. That allowed me to stop having those nightmares really after the one processing session which was amazing. I know there were a lot of different points in our relationship where I felt like I was seeking reassurance from you of “Hey, is everything okay?” “Are we good?” Did that frustrate you or annoy you at times? 

Steve: In a way, it was a big compliment because it meant that you were getting to a point where you wanted to trust me and wanted to get to know me. We wanted to grow more as a couple. So it kind of in a weird way. It sort of made me happy because I knew if we can get through this then we can make it. We can grow as a couple. So I was kind of excited but I knew when somebody’s going through something, you can’t get aggravated with them because that’s their something and if you’re going to be a couple, you have to go through things together. I knew that. So I knew I had to just be patient and hear you out. I know that you would do the exact same thing for me. I wouldn’t want you to get all irritated with me and say, “Hey, you jerk.” That’s part of relationships. I think though that’s a key thing.

Respecting Each Other’s Feelings

Carrie: Right. One of the things that really helped me through that process was when I would come to you with something like I’m having a nightmare or I’m scared about this, or I just need to know that our relationship is okay because we got in a fight or something like that, that you are just so open to say, “it’s okay.” However you’re feeling is, how you’re feeling and now we have to figure out what to do and how to move forward because I think so many times, people try to say, “just don’t feel anxious.” like, yeah, I need to worry about that. I mean, everything’s fine instead of just really like allowing it to be there and sitting with it and saying, you know, I know that there were several times that you told me, of course, you’re having a hard time trusting. Of course, you’re having a hard time opening up. This is still somewhat new. 

Steve: I mean if it were anything else maybe this is a bad example, but if you were riding a bicycle and you had just fallen off that bicycle but you wanted to ride that bike, you would get back on it. I think relationships are similar, you have to get back at it and keep trying, or you’re never gonna get through it if you don’t keep trying. That’s my opinion but you did a lot of things for me as well though where I would have a bad day and whatever, and you were very, very patient with me when I would get aggravated, whatever it is. There were days where I thought, why in the world would she want to be with me? But you still, you man, and not to get all sappy, but you made life a lot better. Let me rephrase that, you make life a lot better.

Joy and Contentment in The Lord: From Being Happy To Ridiculously Happy

Carrie: One of the things that I realized was we had taken a few pictures amongst the first couple of months of dating and one day I was just kind of scrolling through those pictures in my phone and I had this realization and this epiphany of I was happy before I met Steve. So it’s not like you made me happy. I believe very much that there was joy and a contentment in the Lord even though I was longing to have a mate which I believe was a God-given desire that I had. But when I looked at those pictures, I was like, “Man, I went from happy to like ridiculous level happy.” And I don’t know do you feel kind of like, maybe talk a little bit about that process for you as far as like where you were before we met versus now? 

Steve: Sure. Prior to us meeting, I was at a moment where I thought I know that God has someone there for me, but boy I don’t know what I’m doing wrong or what I should be doing. There was just this, it’s almost like when you’re driving on the road and you’re going the wrong way, but you keep going and hope that maybe I’ll see a sign soon. Eventually, you came along, but I had to be patient to get to that.

I think there was a waiting period for me to not rush anything, to not force anything to happen because I really wasn’t happy. I was alone. I didn’t like that. I’m not that type of person. I like doing for others and a single person who likes to do for others, that’s not always a great setup. I mean, you can go and volunteer and do all the things you want, but it isn’t necessarily going to be something that makes you happy if you’re longing for someone. So for me, once I met you, I thought, “Wow! I really like her.” There could be something here. It was actually when we took our flight to Florida, then I knew because long story short, what I call my adopted mom she had cancer and I was told you need to go see her because you may not have another chance. I was really, really upset about that and you went with me, you’re like, “well, I’ll just go with you,” and, “Oh my goodness. Really?” This might be the one. I knew then for sure. 

I don’t know if that answers your question but that was definitely a turning point prior to that. I wasn’t so sure before we dated, I definitely felt lost. 

Carrie: Just to clarify, adopted mom is your best friend’s mom. 

Steve Telling His Family About Seeing and Dating A Therapist

Steve: My best friend’s mom basically feeds me because I eat a lot.  She did things for me that I needed in my life as well. So I’m just one of those special people that needed two moms. That’s all. She did not legally adopt me and she was not my birth mom or anything like that.

Carrie: To understand the context of our flight to Florida was literally that week COVID-19 had been declared a global pandemic and like nobody was flying. There were maybe like 20 people on one of our flights and then on the way back, they kept canceling the flight and they consolidated a bunch of flights. So there were more people on that one, but that was scary because we didn’t know at that point in time. Everybody was being told to stay at home. Don’t travel. Don’t go places and life at the same time was still going on and you knew if I don’t go see second mom, I may not get to see her even if she passes. So we prayed about it. I always just said, “God, please protect us and just please shelter us and cover us” and he did and we did not get sick. Praise the Lord. We did wear masks before wearing masks was required.

Steve: I’m going to back up a second on you. You asked me about things before I met you. One of the things was when you introduce someone to your family or tell your family, “Hey, I’m dating someone.” That for me, there comes a point where you say, “Oh, I just don’t know.”

I don’t want to, I don’t know. You want to be sure. All right, this has got a really good chance. Now I will tell my family. Right now, I don’t know if other people do that, but that was me. When I called my parents up and this is such a silly story.

Carrie: I know you got to tell this.

Steve: I would be in trouble if I didn’t tell this. So I thought it would be a good point, I was talking to both my parents as I often do and telling them, “well, guys, I got something I need to tell you.” And so they’re like, “Oh wait, this guy never gets serious. This must be really important.” I said, “I’m seeing a therapist.” And my dad said, “Oh my gosh, is everything okay?” and I said, “Well, yeah, it’s our I guess second, third date” something like that. Now what he said, “Isn’t that a little unethical for you to be seeing a therapist?” And I said,” well, yeah, but no, no, not that kind of seeing our therapist.” I said, “it’s our second date third date, whatever it was.” I wasn’t seeing you as my therapist.

And that took a little while for my dad to kind of get the idea that I was kind of giving him a hard time that I was actually dating a girl who happens to be a therapist, not dating my therapist. Yeah. That’s kind of our fun story.

Carrie: That was pretty funny. I laughed so hard and then I said, “Oh, please tell me, you clarified that with your dad” like you were never my client just for clarification. I was like, your dad does know we met on Facebook, right? Was it weird for you finding out that I was a therapist? Because sometimes that’s weird when you meet people. 

Steve: A little bit. Only because I was afraid that the first date was going to be less personal and more, well, “how does that make you feel, Steve?” and “How do you feel when.” I wanted to be with someone who is real, not someone who is on the other side as a therapist. I was hoping, and you did that, you can let go of that therapist mode to be able to date and be you, but that, honestly, it’s not like that lasted very long. That was just a moment of “Well, therapists are real too.” It worked out great though. 

Carrie: Yeah. We’re human beings. People don’t realize that a lot of times they’re just like, “Oh gosh, you’re going to analyze me or something” and a lot of times I’ll just joke and I’ll say “I’m off the clock”.

One of the other reasons I wanted to have you on the show was really to encourage single people who maybe aren’t even dating right now. Maybe they’re like me and they were hurting and burned and they’re still healing from that. Or maybe they’re in a situation where they just don’t feel like there is anybody to date and you are single for a long time as a Christian. And that’s a hard space to be in because the church and as it should be is so pro-marriage and you feel awkward or like the odd one out, a lot of times.

Steve: Absolutely. I felt like the reject a lot of times, like what is wrong with me? You know, for me, after going through the divorce, I thought, well, let me give this two years before I date at all. A year to get over that situation as best I can, a year to find me and then I thought then I’ll date and everything will be great, whatever, but it didn’t quite work like that. I can’t tell you how many times people would say, “Man, you have really high standards. You’re going to be single for a long time”, but it was important to me to have a checklist.

The first one on there, she’s got to be Christian. That is important. Not go to church. That’s not enough. I mean, Christian, like a relationship. So I went a very long time as a single man and it’s difficult. Part of that is you get this feeling of am I good enough? And there were moments where I didn’t even try.

I just didn’t. I thought, well, I can’t force it. If it happens, it happens. If you’re not doing anything and you’re not even trying, the likeliness of just stumbling upon whoever it is you’re supposed to be dating. That’s not. You have to search, you don’t find if you don’t search typically.

But I was scared, I thought, am I good enough? And all of that. Anyways, I try dating through church and different avenues and they just didn’t fit for me. That’s not saying if there’s a church out there that has a singles ministry, that it’s a bad idea. No, it’s just the ones that I went through didn’t work for me. It took me a lot of tries and a long, long time.

Carrie: I actually met someone in the singles ministry at church, and he had come a couple Sundays, literally to meet a woman I think, and I start talking to him and realize he’s not even saved. Like he doesn’t even have a relationship and so now I’m like witnessing this guy, like do you know, like it’s not just about going to church or it’s not just like, yeah, I believe in God. You’ve got to have a relationship with Jesus and he just did not understand.

I think he really thought that he had a saving relationship with Christ and I remember being very discouraged by that because I was like, okay, God, I’m in the church and I’m trying to meet a godly man. I ended up meeting someone who’s not a Christian. So, I would agree with you that I remember there were definitely times where I cried out to God and I just said, “Lord, I don’t see it.”

I don’t see single men out there that are living for you and if that’s the case, then I’ve got to stay single until I find somebody. Finding that you not only went to church, but you were serving in the church already, that you were being mentored and going through continued discipleship with other men in the church. That was really exciting for me. I was like, “How is this man not been snatched up yet?”

Steve: And it was funny to me too, that in serving, I hate to say it this way, but that’ll really make me desirable. It doesn’t work like that but I did think that at a moment and I thought, “yeah, I do missions.” Surely, that’s not why I did missions, but at the same time, I thought this will be great. It doesn’t work like that. It’s what it is. 

Carrie: Yeah. I know that everybody says this. I don’t want to be cliche, but I really feel like so much is about timing and I think about even God’s grace in the timing that we met and we’re able to meet each other’s families before COVID really hit and get to know each other and go out and do things before everything shut down.

That was really God’s grace at that point. When you’re in the middle of something, it’s really, really hard to have perspective on it. So like when you’re in the middle of your single loneliness, sexless life, let’s just be honest and you’re sitting there going, “Oh gosh, like, am I ever going to meet somebody?”

It’s really, really hard. And so I guess if you’re in that place, I just want to encourage you and say like I’ve been there. I’ve been crying in the car or crying in my bed about how I’m never gonna meet anybody. But now when I look back on it, I’m like, “Oh, gosh, God is so gracious and so good to me.” And it’s almost like he had this gift and he was like, “You can’t have it now. It’s not for now, but I have it for you already. I’m going to give it to you when it’s time, when you’re ready to receive that gift and you’re ready to have it. I’m going to give it to you.” I think it’s really shifted my perspective on other things in my life that I’m praying and I’m seeking God for, and I’m asking him for, and it’s allowed me to just really trust in His timing more and more.

Steve: Absolutely and like you say, I think you’re absolutely right, it’s about timing. If I would’ve seen you 15 years ago, would it have been the same? No. Everything had to match up. You had to go through what you went through and I had to go through what I went through.

I’ve matured so much as a Christian since then. So, it’s a good thing that we had to wait, but when you’re going through it, it does not feel like a good thing. No one says, “Oh, I’m so glad to be single and sprinkle…I can’t even talk single and miserable and I’m so glad I have to wait. Yeah, this is wonderful.

I’m lonely. I don’t even like myself. Isn’t this great. You know what I mean? But when you look back, you see how you’re molded and you’re preowned and the right one is there for you. 

Carrie: Yeah, let’s just do some, maybe some general advice for single Christians. I would say really be passionate and dedicated to something specifically God. Obviously putting God first and serving the church. I think too many single Christians I’ve seen are going to this church over here on Sunday mornings and they sometimes hit that church over there on Wednesday nights and they’re not really necessarily dedicated to a church or they attend, but they aren’t pouring into it. They aren’t serving.

I think, any opportunity to be really dedicated and committed and serve others because as a single person, sometimes we can really get self-absorbed and just kind of into what we’ve got going on and just going through the motions and survival. And so being able to be committed to something or committed to the church prepares you for when you’re committed to another person because if you’re willing to carve out, say that time to serve the children’s ministry. Then you’re going to be willing to carve out that time to date someone. You’re going to be willing to carve out that time when you do get married. 

Steve: That will be something that if you’re looking for someone when they see that you’re working in serving in the church and you’re happy and doing it, they’re going to see that as a great gift. That is a wonderful thing. It’s a great attribute versus “Oh, well, look at the desperate one there.” That’s who I want. Nobody wants to be desperate. Serve more because what you need is what you need to do and that’s what they’ll look at.

Carrie: I think for me too, when I knew I was ready to date again, it was because I felt like for the first time, in a long time, I felt like I had something to give. I wasn’t just looking for what I was going to receive as part of the relationship and that was really huge for me.

Steve: I didn’t want to be, for me, that person who is just afraid to be alone because you see people that date and the only reason that maybe they’re dating, maybe this is judgmental on my part, but you get the idea that the only reason they’re dating because they don’t want to be alone. That’s just a recipe for disaster. I think being patient there’s a lot to that. 

Carrie: Any other advice or anything else you want to add?

Steve: We didn’t say this and we should have. Pray a lot. Pray a lot about it and don’t just say, “God help me to find a wonderful, beautiful woman.” Don’t be selfish about it.

Pray that you’ll be the right person for them because he’s got a future for you, but you need to be ready.

Carrie: And you’ve got to be willing to work on yourself and examine yourself and look at how can I prepare myself? How can I surrender to God’s transformation process in my life?

If you’re not a person who’s willing to receive feedback from other people, that’s going to be a stumbling block in a relationship. If you’re a person that has a hard time being honest about what you think and feel that’s going to be a stumbling block, but the good news is that you really can work on those things in your friendships and your relationships with coworkers, in your relationships with family and other people in the church and community and that’s so valuable. Those things are really going to prepare you. I definitely would agree with what you said about praying and really allowing God to bring forth that prayer process, the qualities that you really want to have in a spouse. 

I know one of the things that I prayed for was somebody who would be in love with Jesus, not just go to church who would be serving the church, who would be involved in ministry opportunities and who would pray with me and who would be willing to encourage my spiritual journey as well. 

There were many different characteristics that I was able to pray through and then go back and look at our relationship and look at you and say, “okay, these are the things that I’ve already been praying for and now I’m seeing the answer to those prayers.”

Steve: Yeah. That was important with the prayer was not just me praying. I don’t know for you if this happened, but for me as a guy, I had to open up to someone and say, “Hey bro, do you mind praying for me that I won’t be single and miserable?” I’ll be the man that God wants me to be for whoever or wherever she is. And so I did. There were several people praying, but there were two specifics. One was a former pastor’s wife and another was a very close accountability partner, buddy whatever you want to call them of mine.

And they’re both just two of the most, I don’t know if I could say the most Christian people I know, but definitely there in the word every day they are connected. They are great prayer warriors and both of them prayed like crazy and so, boy did their faces light up when I said, “Hey, guess what? I found someone.”

Get someone to pray with you because it’s not just about you praying. God wants us to include others. It’s not a solo thing. So get someone to pray with you because they can tell you things that maybe you’re ignoring or you’re not seeing. They can go deeper with you. It’s worth it. 

Carrie: We’re both blessed to also have praying parents who watched us go through divorce and obviously were heartbroken because no parent wants that for their kids and they really were praying along with us. 

Steve: Yes. I think my mom is more protective of you than she is of me, which is really saying a lot, but that’s a good thing. She always wants to know, “are you treating her good?” How is she doing? That’s good though. That’s what I want. It’s a good thing. It’s a good feeling.

Carrie: I didn’t tell you were going to be asked this, but at the end of every episode on hope for anxiety and OCD, what we ask is for the guests to share a story of hope, which is a time that you received hope from God or another person.

Steve: Wow. That is a tough question. Probably when my brother died because that was someone who I was extremely close to. I had really more than one person, but there were a few that came up beside me and just kind of said, “Hey, we know you’re not going to open up about what’s going on, maybe, but we’re praying for you.” Specific prayers, very specific. That gave me hope because I had never been through life without my brother. Losing a family member that is so difficult but having people there that said, “Steve, we know that you lost someone and we can’t fix that but what we can do is we’ll be your family.” “Where you had that phone call with your brother, every whatever day we’ll call you. We’ll do this or we’ll do that.”

So that’s part of how my mission family that I have actually grew because that group of people who I did missions with, they would call me and they would just show up and say, “Hey, you want to go out to dinner?” “You want to go out to lunch.” Do the things that my brother and I might do. So that gave me hope. It made me realize if someone’s going through someone or something, you need to do that for them. Stand up and do something. Be there for people. 

Carrie: Just being there is so important. Thank you so much for sharing all of your singleness. It’s always good laughing with you. 

Steve: Yes, always good laughing with you too. 

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I am so thankful that Steve was willing to come on the podcast. He’s a bit more of a private behind-the-scenes guy. So this was really a gift to me to get to interview him and share our story and talk a little bit about what dating was like for us. I hope it provided some encouragement to some other people who are out there maybe who are struggling with anxiety in this area. 

Since this is our 10th episode and we launched with 10 episodes, I really want to hear from you as far as what parts of the show do you really like. What parts do you not like? What things can we improve on and make them better for you?

This is not just about me talking into a microphone, finding some friends to interview, and throwing it out there. It’s really my desire that this information be encouraging, helpful, and hopeful. So whether you think that we’re meeting those goals, or we’re not, please let us know on carriebock.com/podcast

Thanks so much for listening.