Tag: Christian mental health

213. Pt 2: Why Scrupulosity is so Complicated and Hard to Treat

Written by Carrie Bock on March 4, 2026. Posted in OCD, Podcast Episode.

In this episode, Carrie continues exploring why scrupulosity can feel so layered and difficult to untangle. She examines the hidden fears, spiritual experiences, and beliefs about God that may be quietly fueling the struggle.

Episode Highlights:

How scrupulosity often attaches itself to other OCD themes
What it means to identify the “primary obsessional doubt” beneath the surface
Why theology and personal history both matter in recovery
How early relationships can shape your view of God
Why healing may require examining both belief systems and identity
What it looks like to move from an identity rooted in fear to one rooted in being loved

Episode Summary:

Why Is It So Hard to Trust a Therapist When You Have Scrupulosity?

Welcome back, OCD Warriors.

In Part One, we talked about the lack of awareness in church spaces, beliefs about mental health and medication, and how Christians sometimes struggle with thoughts and feelings. Today, I want to go deeper.

One of the most complicated layers of scrupulosity is this: distrust.

Many Christians struggling with OCD come to me after trying to get help from someone who simply did not understand what they were going through. Sometimes the first person they talk to does not have the clinical training to treat OCD well. Other times, they sit across from a therapist who does not share their faith and cannot grasp why certain fears feel so spiritually intense.

That experience lingers.

It makes you cautious. It makes you hesitant to try again. And sometimes it makes you question whether real help even exists.

Why Does Getting Help for Scrupulosity Feel So Complicated?

Scrupulosity lives in a space where faith and clinical treatment intersect.

Because the fears sound spiritual, it makes sense to seek spiritual help first. But OCD follows a specific reasoning pattern, and without understanding that process, reassurance can unintentionally make things worse.

On the other hand, working with someone who does not understand why certain fears feel eternal can feel just as unsettling.

That tension alone can delay healing.

Why Does Scrupulosity Rarely Show Up Alone

Another layer that makes this theme so complex is that it often attaches itself to other OCD struggles.

Relationship doubts can turn into fears about being outside of God’s will. Intrusive thoughts can morph into questions about salvation. Contamination fears can become spiritualized.

Now the anxiety feels heavier. Not just uncomfortable, but ultimate.

And if we only focus on the surface issue, we may never get to the deeper fear underneath.

What Is Beneath the Surface of the Fear?

When we slow down enough, there is often something more vulnerable at the core.

Not just “Am I right?”
But “Am I still loved?”
Not just “Did I sin?”
But “Am I disconnected from God?”

Until that layer is acknowledged, treatment can feel like circling the same arguments again and again.

How Do My Experiences Shape My View of God?

For some people, scrupulosity is intertwined with early experiences of authority, correction, or fear.

If you grew up feeling constantly criticized, it can subtly shape how you imagine God responding to you. If you learned that love was conditional, that belief can follow you into your spiritual life.

Sometimes the nervous system is reacting to old patterns, not to God Himself.

Healing may require looking gently at where those patterns began.

What Happens When My Identity Begins to Shift?

If you have long believed you are disappointing to God, stepping into the identity of beloved child can feel unfamiliar at first.

New beliefs require a new identity. And even good change can feel destabilizing.

Scrupulosity is layered for a reason. It is not simply a lack of faith or effort.

In this episode of Christian Faith and OCD, we continue unpacking why this theme can be especially complicated to treat and what that means for your healing journey.

If this resonates, I invite you to listen and lean in. 💛

Explore Related Episode

141. Is OCD Keeping You From Reading the Bible?

154: Using Christian Meditation to Go Deeper with God, an interview with Jennifer Tucker

Transcript

Welcome back, OCD Warriors, to part two of Why Is Scrupulosity So Complicated and Hard to Treat? Hello, and welcome to Christian Faith and OCD with Carrie Bock. I’m a Christ follower, wife, and mother, and a licensed professional counselor who helps Christians struggling with OCD get to a deeper level of healing. When I couldn’t find resources for my clients with OCD, God called me to bring this podcast to you with practical tools for developing greater peace. We’re here to bust through the shame and stigma surrounding struggling with OCD as a Christian, sharing hopeful stories of healing and helping you replace uncertainty with faith. I’m here to help you let go of the past and future to walk in the present, abundant life God has for you. So let’s dive right into today’s episode.

I got really long-winded, so we did part one last week, where I went over three points in greater detail. I would encourage you to go back and listen to that episode if you haven’t already. As a quick review, the first three points were: a lack of awareness in the church or biblical counseling circles, which leads to a delay in treatment; two, all kinds of beliefs about mental health and medication in the church; and number three, the Christian church has an unhealthy relationship at times with thoughts and feelings. So let’s dive right into the next point.

Number four, why scrupulosity is so complicated and hard to treat, is a severe distrust of non-Christian providers, as I spoke about in terms of the biblical counseling examples. Unfortunately, Christians who are struggling with OCD, often the first person they seek help from lacks the necessary skills and experience to truly be able to help them. I find that really sad, but that’s the truth.

Now, some people don’t trust non-Christian providers based on past negative experiences, and I’ve heard all of the stories from you guys about trying to seek help and really just feeling like the person just didn’t get it. I mean, I think as clients—I’m someone who’s the therapist, but I’ve been to several different therapists—sometimes you sit down with a therapist and you can just exhale. You’re like, ah. They get it. They understand what I’m dealing with. They’re able to make empathetic reflections and say, yeah, that makes sense to me, and here’s why. It seems like you’re feeling this way, and there’s this sense of relief that comes over you, like, okay, this person is gelling. But then there are other times where you meet with therapists and you’re like, this person just has no idea what I am going through right now. They may have difficulty empathizing with your experience.

This can be true if someone doesn’t believe in God or value religious experience. They may have a really hard time empathizing that potential blasphemy or potential sin is really distressing to you, or this idea that you might be outside of God’s will or that you might not go to heaven. It can be just hard for them to get that. Maybe at the same time, there have been negative experiences where people have done non-religiously sensitive exposures, haven’t really worked with a pastor or spiritual leader, as IOCDF really recommends and proposes, just making sure that the clinician is working with the church, especially if they’re unfamiliar. Sometimes those things have happened.

Also, I’ve heard stories about therapists maybe making fun of hell, for example, trying to kind of make things more lighthearted or get the client to not take it so seriously. However, of course, this is going to be very distressing to somebody with scrupulosity who believes hell is a real place.

I just want to say a note here about, okay, in an ideal world, you would be able to find a Christian who has good clinical knowledge about OCD and is able to treat you. What if you have to go into maybe an intensive outpatient treatment program, a residential treatment program? What if you really, really need to use your insurance? You’re financially limited in the providers that you can see. Maybe there aren’t a whole lot of people who take insurance that are treating OCD. I would say, I think a lot of times people fear being led astray, but typically those people that fear that are pretty strong and grounded in what they actually believe. And I would say, don’t underestimate God’s ability to use nonbelievers.

What I mean by that is you look at this whole situation with Moses and Pharaoh, for example. Ultimately, God used Pharaoh and the Egyptian people, who were not following Him, in order to bless the people of Israel. They essentially got all of this gold and other things that they gave them for their journey, let them release them from slavery in the end, of course, after all the plagues and all that. This is shown through Scripture, even God using other nations to discipline Israel. So don’t underestimate the ability for God to use nonbelievers. If you need treatment and you need help, if you find a really good clinician, they’re going to be somebody that wants to work with you from your particular faith experience and your particular belief systems.

Now, people may think that it’s easier for me because I’m a Christian who works with Christians. Newsflash: it’s not. I still have to do this work myself because there are so many different denominations and streams of Christianity. I have to ask a lot of questions often to find out where people are coming from, and people don’t always hold the same beliefs or practices that I do. And so I’m really looking at where are they coming from, how are their symptoms affecting them, and how maybe their beliefs are intertwined. The OCD is intertwined with the particular belief system, and understanding the belief system and the practices, of course, helps.

I can tell you just from personal experience that working with somebody who’s Catholic versus somebody who’s in the Orthodox church versus somebody who’s a Mennonite versus somebody who’s in a charismatic church—their beliefs and practices may be very different, and that’s okay. Regardless of where you’re coming from, you can still recover in your OCD journey. You don’t have to completely change denominations or anything of that nature.

Number five, scrupulosity often does not exist by itself but becomes an offshoot of other OCD themes. It’s pretty rare that I find somebody who is only dealing with scrupulosity. Typically, they have had a history of other OCD themes, or they’re starting with one OCD theme, and then scrupulosity interferes and almost adds this whole other layer on top of the theme.

So even if someone has, for example, themes about relationships—should I be with this person or not?—then that can go into, well, if I marry this person, then I’m somehow messing up God’s will for my life if it wasn’t meant for us to be together. It could be a situation where I have some type of contamination OCD, but then that gets blended in with, it’s a sin to be contaminated, or I’m unclean in some type of way because of my sin. And so then I’m doing some type of hand-washing rituals because of certain thoughts I’m having.

So I’ve seen this come up quite a bit. Any type of sexual themes also ends up feeding scrupulosity. What kind of Christian am I if I have these thoughts? Maybe that means this about my faith. I don’t really love God because I’m having these types of intrusions or I’m having sexual intrusions. And then, like I said before, confusing that temptation for sin. So scrupulosity getting combined with other forms of OCD creates these extra layers to deal with, right?

So we’re not really at the root of the issue sometimes when we’re just dealing with the scrupulosity if it is connected to another theme. So it may be helpful to look at what someone was obsessing with before the scrupulosity came along and latched onto the top of it. Even something like I gave the example before about the denominations. It’s like, are we really at what ICBT would call the primary obsessional doubt? You can get caught up in the weeds a lot in scrupulosity, which makes it super hard on the treatment end.

So for the example that I gave earlier about which denomination to follow, is that really the primary obsessional doubt? Or is the primary obsessional doubt at a deeper layer, such as, what if I offend God, or what if I make the wrong decision and I’m outside of what God wants me to do? People can spend a lot of time in therapy hashing out these ideas or ruminating about, well, this denomination says this and that denomination says that. You can get super in the weeds about Calvinism versus communionism and these other things that may be really bothering someone, but then you’re never actually getting down to the root of what is actually scaring them.

What are you actually concerned about? And typically what I’ve seen is there’s some type of worry or doubt about being disconnected from God in some way, shape, or form. Whether that’s present disconnection from God—I’m going to be sinning and God’s going to be displeased with me—or whether it’s future disconnection from God in terms of I’m not going to be saved and I’m not going to be going to heaven. You’re not going to really be able to deal with the issue if you can’t get down to the primary obsessional doubt in terms of ICBT or some type of core fear that you’re experiencing.

Oftentimes, it’s really hard for people to go there because it’s very scary. It feels very vulnerable, and it’s hard to even maybe know in your own mind, what am I really doubting in this situation? If you do get down to that point—this fear of disconnection from God or fear of punishment or being unsafe, somehow missing something, and then if I miss it, I’m somehow going to be displeasing or rejected—when you get there to that vulnerable, scary place, then you can be able to recognize the obsessional reasoning process, the arguments that OCD is using, and get to what your alternative narrative needs to be.

Now, when you hit that primary obsessional doubt and, in essence, this core thing that you’re afraid of, then we get to point number seven, where treating scrupulosity requires that you take a hard look at your theology and where it came from. We get all kinds of ideas about God, whether that was from a pastor you grew up with who was hellfire and brimstone. You may not believe those things about God now, but it’s still stuck back in there in your subconscious, and your nervous system remembers that fear, that intense fear that you felt when you heard that pastor.

You may have had parents that quoted certain Scripture verses to you or were very harsh toward you in their discipline, and they may have somehow incorporated God into certain things. OCD-wise, God doesn’t want you to be a lazy person. God doesn’t want you to be dirty. Cleanliness is next to godliness, whatever it was. Those ideas from people got mixed in with your theology. You have to be able to examine, how did I come to believe the things that I do about God? I think that is crucial.

Oftentimes, there are things that we don’t recognize because it’s just the water that we’ve been swimming in. Until you get in treatment or talk to another therapist where they’re like, where did you come to have that belief? Or how did you get to that point? It’s like, well, it just is. It’s black and white, right?

There’s a lot of conversation nowadays about deconstructing your religious beliefs that you were taught and that you grew up with. You really don’t want to have deconstruction unless you’re going to have some type of reconstruction, right? What are we going to believe now about God? Are we going to use Scripture to inform our belief systems, or are we going on our own experiences?

Knowing that your experiences with God, if you have a relationship with Him, there may be experiences that you have that really challenge what you were taught. There may be Scriptures that you read in the Bible where you say, wait a minute, I wasn’t taught that. I was taught that I was nothing in the sight of God, that I wasn’t important, that I wasn’t valued, that I was just kind of here for God’s purposes. I was basically taught that I was scum. Now I’m seeing all these verses in the Bible about how God rejoices over me with singing, that we talked about on the love episode on the podcast, how God has loved us with an everlasting love, how God sees me as His child. And I look at my own children and see how I see them, and if God sees me that way, then wow, that’s completely different than what I grew up believing.

Whatever it is for you, I think you have to be able to take a hard look and recognize maybe something that I believe is not true and it’s not in alignment with my relationship with God.

I’ll give you a very small example in my life that is not of huge relevance, but I was taught as a child, growing up in the Baptist church, that speaking in tongues was not a thing, that it was a thing in the Bible. My dad was a very strong cessationist, where they believed that there was a point where speaking in tongues ceased and it was no more. Since being an adult and going to different churches, I’ve met some people that I consider to be very godly people and strong believers who speak in tongues. So I have a respect for those people, even though I haven’t been given that gift myself.

I would say that that’s one belief that has changed based on my own review of the Scriptures for myself as an adult and through personal experience of talking with other believers. I think we have to free ourselves to acknowledge that maybe our past self was wrong about something, and that’s okay. And maybe our beliefs can change. That’s not necessarily a bad thing.

I know that Steve and I have talked about this with some other non-essential beliefs, that some of his views on certain things have changed over time based on reading the Bible, prayer, personal experience, and talking with other people. So it’s okay and, I think, healthy every once in a while to examine what you believe about God and understand where that came from and why you believe that.

Number eight is you have to be willing to examine how your relationships with others are impacting the scrupulosity, how they’ve impacted your view of God. Specifically, those early relationships that we had with parents, teachers, coaches, grandparents really can influence how we view God. Oftentimes, we take those experiences from other people and place them onto God.

If you just felt like people were constantly disappointed in you, like you could never live up to their expectations, it makes sense that you would believe that God is that way. If you feel like people were just very harsh and always pointing out what you were doing wrong, or you were constantly being punished, maybe you really struggled to please people but you always seemed to get in trouble, and the punishment maybe didn’t quite fit the crime, was maybe harsher than it needed to be—I don’t know what your experience was—but that might be another example where you feel like, okay, God is really harsh and is coming down on me pretty hard.

I had a father who was pretty big and could be pretty scary when he was angry. Not in an I’m going to be beat up kind of way, but more of an authoritative, verbally scary type of way. I definitely put that onto God, like maybe God is like Dad and He’s going to yell at me if I get in trouble, or He’s going to be upset with me if I do the wrong thing. And it took me a while into my adulthood to be able to even call God Father. That just didn’t seem quite right to me.

This understanding now of God as a loving Father has completely changed and shifted things for me. It’s been a healing journey and very therapeutic for me. But it took me a while to get there because, as I shared on the very first episode of this podcast, when I was growing up, God seemed to be very harsh to me. In the Old Testament, God seemed very angry. Now I have a much more balanced view of that because I can definitely see God’s love throughout different pieces of the Old Testament. But back when I was a kid, things didn’t quite make as much sense for me.

I also didn’t see God as wanting to be intimately involved in every aspect of my life. I think my parents did a really good job of taking us to church and talking to us about God when it came to the big things and the moral things. But I really want my daughter to know something that maybe my child self didn’t know, that God cares about your math test on a Tuesday just as much as He cares about you making the right decision over here about something. God wants to be intimately involved in your life. He wants you to go to Him over all types of different things. Things that seem small to us are not insignificant to Him, and He has enough space to hold them. It’s not like we’re going to bother God. If we go to Him about our math test, He’s not going to be like, why are you talking to Me about that? He’s going to be like, I’m so glad that you talked to Me about that. God wants to give us peace.

I didn’t get that picture of God growing up, and now I’m able to tell my daughter, you can talk to God about anything, whatever you need to. And she just has these really sweet prayers at night where she thanks God for different toys in her room, and I just think that that’s beautiful.

Oftentimes, we overcomplicate our connection with God. Jesus said, come like a child. So if we look at how children approach God, then it’s much more simple and much easier than trying to follow a huge, long list of rules or picking apart every little thing to determine whether or not it’s a sin or it’s okay. I think that children have a greater understanding of things being about the heart and doing things out of love.

So how have your relationships with caregivers impacted your view of God? This is really where I believe a great EMDR application can come in. Because if we do have some of those wounding experiences that are stuck in our nervous system and you’re able to process through that and come to the other side where you’re feeling calmer and recognizing, oh, okay, I was hurt by certain people, or I understand I’m making a connection now between a parent and viewing God as harsh, or this super critical parent and viewing God as critical. That type of work typically isn’t going to enter into typical ERP or ICBT treatment.

One of the things that I think is really important and critical is to look at individuals as whole people, to look at the various aspects of what’s happening for them versus looking at them from a lens of diagnosis. When I was much earlier on in my career, someone would come to me and say, hey, I have trauma. I’m like, hey, great, I do this trauma therapy called EMDR. We could handle that. Or someone would come and say, hey, I have anxiety. Oh, great, here’s some tools that I can give you for anxiety. There’s also some things that we can do with EMDR that will really help you get down to the root and not have to carry so much anxiety around in your nervous system.

And it was this much cleaner process, right, of here’s a problem that someone has, and then here’s an appropriate intervention. And it’s also somewhat what we’re taught in school. The longer that you go along, the more complex individuals you find and the more you recognize different approaches can be helpful in different circumstances and situations. I don’t believe in a one-size-fits-all treatment process for anyone.

New beliefs require a new identity. If you are going to embrace new beliefs about faith, new beliefs about God—if you are no longer the unworthy stepchild in the family of God and you are going to be the beloved child—that requires putting on a new identity in Jesus. Sometimes shedding that old identity that’s comfortable or familiar to embrace your new identity in Christ can be really, really challenging if you’ve lived for a really long time believing God was disappointed in you or that you weren’t good enough or that you weren’t ever going to be able to meet His standards.

And now you’re trying to shift over every day into believing that you are absolutely and completely loved, that you have been saved, that the cross is the finished work of Jesus Christ, and there’s nothing else that you need to do to earn God’s love. Ephesians 4 talks about putting off the old self and putting on the new self and understanding who you are in Christ. Freedom is going to be uncomfortable at first if it’s a new experience for you.

What do you think about these points that I came up with? I would love to hear from you. If you’re a therapist that treats scrupulosity, if you’re a person that struggles with it, if you have a family member or a loved one, I’d love to hear your honest feedback on this episode because I just want to know, are other people seeing what I’m seeing in the world and talking about the complexities that get brought into the scrupulosity equation?

If you are struggling with scrupulosity, my hope is that you’ve gotten a few things out of this episode. One is that there is hope for you, that there is a pathway forward, that it may be complicated, but that doesn’t mean that you can’t get help with this. Number two, I hope that it’s validating to you that if you’ve struggled, if you’ve been to a couple different therapists, if you’ve tried the biblical therapy and then tried a clinical counselor who wasn’t Christian and tried to find this happy medium of what you were looking for between solid biblical truth and clinical skills that are going to be able to help you, know that you’re not alone. We get emails from people all the time who are seeking to find that.

If you happen to be a therapist that you feel like is aligned with that vision, where you’re a strong believer and also have strong clinical skills, please write to us. Please reach out via the podcast. You can go to kerrybock.com/podcast. There should be a contact form on there. If not, you can hit us up on the main contact form on the website. We’d love to hear from you. We probably could provide you some referrals because we do have people that reach out to us and ask, do you know anyone in my state? And unfortunately, nine times out of ten, the answer is no.

So if you are a Christian counselor who has some things you want to talk about or have conversations about on the podcast, we’d love to have you and love to be able to add you to our very small, at this point, referral list for Christians who are struggling with OCD.

And if you feel like you’ve only been getting a one-size-fits-all approach, it’s a really great opportunity for you to advocate for yourself and to figure out, okay, what’s the next step? What do I need? I provide consultations for people. I provide intensive experiences, multi-day therapeutic retreats. I have an online course called Empowered Mind for Christians who are struggling with all types of OCD, but many people in there are specifically struggling with scrupulosity. Come join that program and really squeeze all of the goodness that is in there out of it. It’s been able to help a lot of people at this point, and I pray that it continues to be able to help people who feel like they haven’t been able to get the help that they needed before, where it’s been out of reach for some reason for them.

You can reach me at carriebock.com. I love hearing from you guys. Until next time, may you be comforted by God’s great love for you.

Christian Faith and OCD is a production of By the Well Counseling. This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be a substitute for seeking mental health treatment in your area.

187. Is it Time To Get a New Therapist?

Written by Carrie Bock on August 18, 2025. Posted in Counseling, OCD, Podcast Episode.

In this episode, Carrie explores how to recognize when it might be time to move on from your therapist. She unpacks both major red flags and quieter signs that the fit isn’t right, offering practical, faith-based insight for clients, loved ones, and fellow professionals.

Episode Highlights:

What red flags signal it’s time to immediately leave and report a therapist
Why dual relationships and boundary violations matter in Christian therapy
How to assess if your therapist’s approach or personality is a good fit for you
The role of faith alignment in the therapeutic relationship
Why it’s okay to switch therapists, even if you’ve grown close to them

Episode Summary:

Welcome back OCD Warriors, friends and family members, and any therapist who might be tuning in. In today’s episode, I’m diving into something that comes up more often than you might think—how to tell when it’s time to switch therapists. If you’ve been feeling stuck, second-guessing your progress, or wondering whether your therapist really understands your faith or your OCD, you are not alone. This is something I hear from clients and listeners all the time, especially those navigating OCD from a Christian perspective. We’re going to break it down together.

I’ll walk you through the clear red flags that signal it’s time to leave—things like blurred boundaries, ethical concerns, or confidentiality issues. But we’ll also talk about subtle yellow flags that are easy to dismiss but still matter. Maybe you don’t feel emotionally safe in sessions. Maybe your therapist seems supportive but doesn’t really understand the spiritual weight of scrupulosity or the compulsions tied to fear of sin, hell, or salvation. Or maybe you’ve outgrown their approach, and you’re ready for someone trained in ERP or ICBT, which are evidence-based methods proven to treat OCD effectively.

Therapy is deeply personal, and it’s okay to outgrow a therapist or need a different approach as your healing continues. You’re not failing, and you’re not being disloyal—sometimes the bravest thing is recognizing when it’s time for a change. So tune in to this episode of Christian Faith and OCD, and let’s walk through this decision together with clarity, grace, and a little courage too.

Transcript

Hello and welcome to Christian Faith and OCD with Carrie Bock. I’m a Christ follower, wife and mother licensed professional counselor who helps Christians struggling with OCD get to a deeper level of healing. When I couldn’t find resources for my clients with OCD, God called me to bring this podcast to you with practical tools for developing greater peace.

We’re here to bust through the shame and stigma surrounding struggling with OCD as a Christian, sharing hopeful stories of healing and helping you replace uncertainty with faith. I’m here to help you let go of the past and future to walk in the present abundant life God has for you. So let’s dive right into today’s episode.

Finding a Therapist is a whole topic with it itself, and we’ve done a show on that before, so we’ll link that in the show notes. Today we’re talking about when is it time to say goodbye. Maybe you found somebody, but you’re really not seeing the progress and the momentum that you’re wanting. Maybe you found somebody and things just aren’t going right.

So I want to give you some very practical guidelines on how to help you make that decision of, is it time to get a new therapist? The first thing we’re gonna talk about are the immediate red flags. This is like, okay, it is definitely time to pull the plug and find somebody else. Not only that, but it’s also time to report them to your state’s board so that they can investigate further and you can potentially protect someone else from going through what you went through.

The biggest red flag would be if your therapist is. Impaired in some way, like by alcohol, drugs. No one is immune to addiction just because of their profession. Another red flag would be if your therapist hits on you, either subtly or overtly, they’re flirting with you. They’re trying to have any kind of dating or sexual relationship with you.

This is completely inappropriate and should not happen. Doesn’t matter if you feel like you’re flirting with your therapist. Trust me, it happens. And unfortunately in our field, it also does happen at times where therapists sleep with their clients. This is completely unethical and inappropriate. So please, if that has happened to you.

One, I am very sorry, but two, please report that individual to the state board. And of course, I’m speaking from the perspective of a licensed professional counselor that there are certain ethics we have to apply by. That may depend a little bit or be slightly different based on your therapist’s licensure.

Another thing we are not allowed to do is have what’s called a dual relationship with our clients. So your therapist shouldn’t be asking you to go into business with them. They shouldn’t be asking you to volunteer for a fundraiser they are hosting. Your therapist shouldn’t be friending you on social media.

It shouldn’t be recruiting you for their small group. Now, sometimes in certain rural areas or places where obviously there’s a lot less people and less therapists, you may have some dual relationships or they may be considered appropriate based on the circumstances. For example, you might not be able to help but running into clients at the baseball field or clients at church.

I would say it depends on the size of your church. If you go to a very large church or a mega type church and your therapist goes there, that’s not necessarily a conflict of interest as long as you guys aren’t going on the same mission trip together where it’s like a group of 10 people or. Being in the same small group together, something like that, where you’re going to have very close relationship ties that are outside of the therapy room.

And the reason for that is that all other kinds of emotions now get involved that are gonna affect your professional relationship. Whether we like it or not, the therapy relationship is imbalanced, that we are in a position of authority, and with that authority comes some level of power. We have to be cautious about dual relationships, even things like going to weddings or funerals.

Your therapist should not be initiating greeting you outside of the therapy room. So if you run into your therapist at Walmart, you can say hello to them, but we really can’t initiate that conversation or interaction if there’s other people around. It always begs the question of, well, how do you know that person?

Right? That’s what you’re wondering, like, oh, how do you know that person? Well, my husband already knows like not to ask me that question. It’s not something that happens a whole lot that I would run into clients, especially now because I see a lot of people across the state online, but it has happened and we just have to handle it in a professional sense and respecting people’s privacy and confidentiality.

Violating confidentiality would be a red flag if your therapist is talking to your mother or. Your best friend or someone else, anyone else, doesn’t matter who it is about what’s happening in therapy and you haven’t signed a release of information so that you can talk to that person. That is a violation of confidentiality.

Confidentiality, of course, has its limits. When you report things like child abuse or elder abuse, we have to report those things, and if you say you’re gonna harm yourself or someone else, you have plans and intentions to do such things. Not just like I’m having a passing thought, but I’m really going to act on this.

Obviously we have to report those things. Many of the things that I just went over as red flags are typically contained in your therapist informed consent document that you signed when you initiate therapy. This helps us all be on the same page, like I have a section in there where I explain that people should not come find me on social media, should not try to friend me even on something like LinkedIn.

Sometimes I think people see that as kind of innocent. Oh, it’s a professional connection, but I still don’t friend clients on those types of sites either. Informed consent documents will also explain things like the limits of confidentiality, as well as things like the training your therapist has. Their therapeutic approaches that they must align with.

I think it’s really important to go over these red flags because I have talked with clients before and I think sometimes they’re unaware that some of these things are a red flag. Now, everything that I mentioned from here on out, it’s gonna be a little bit more of a yellow flag. It’s not like run for the door.

Stops a therapeutic relationship and report them to the board. It’s not gonna be like that, but it’s probably why most of you tuned into this episode. I’m having these questions and I’m really just wondering if, is this house therapy is supposed to go? I’m not really sure. I think the main reason that people leave a therapist is because they’re not feeling like they’re getting what they’re needing.

That would be a great example, but before you just leave, I would want to encourage you to communicate that with your therapist. Sometimes we’ll have people that feel like, oh, I’m just not making progress. Like they’re super hard on themselves and we can really go back and trace and say, okay, I hear you say that you’re not making progress.

I remember last week you came in and you said you handled that X situation totally differently than you would have six months ago or a year ago. Okay, so if you don’t feel like you’re making progress, do we need to try a different therapeutic approach? That might be something that I know how to do and it might be something that I refer someone out for.

I’ve had people that just absolutely did not want to do parts work and I really felt like that was gonna be most beneficial for them, and we just ended up parting ways and that’s okay. Like it’s totally an okay and normal thing. If your therapist isn’t able to offer something that you’re wanting, or if you feel like after going for a little while that their particular modalities aren’t a good fit for you.

It’s totally okay to communicate that therapists vary quite a bit in their levels of directiveness. Some therapists are pretty direct. I would say that I fit into that category and some therapists kind of just let you talk and allow you to process and figure things out for yourself. Ideally, we want to know if someone is gonna be a good fit for us as the therapist before we see them initially, or sometimes people will do phone consultations.

It just depends a lot on that therapist. I have a ton of information about me. Online and via my website through my podcast. So people pretty much know what they’re getting when they come to see me typically. But for other therapists, they don’t have as much information out there online or their website’s kind of sparse.

Some of ’em do free 15 minute phone consultations where you can just talk back and forth about what your needs are. That’s just a time for the therapist to tell you a little bit about how they work for you to ask for what you need. And I think sometimes in the beginning. From the client side, it may be really hard to know what you need.

You may just say, Hey, I just feel a bit of a mess and I need someone to talk with and evaluate what I’m going through and provide some guidance about my next steps. Just like with anything else, the more that you do something, the more you start to get in touch with what feels good, what doesn’t feel good, and that can give you some indication about.

What your needs are in therapy. So I’ve had people come to see me who were seeing a much less directive type therapist who say, I went to go see somebody, and they just kind of, they nodded their head and they never really gave me a whole lot of feedback or a whole lot of guidance. I didn’t get specific skills on how to handle situations.

And because they went through that experience, they then knew, Hey, for the next person, I want somebody who’s going to be much more. Hands-on directive. Hey, here’s what you do in this situation. Type feedback. If you find that you’re in a therapeutic relationship and it just doesn’t seem like a good fit where you don’t really feel like you’re getting what you’re eating, just know that it’s okay.

It doesn’t mean that you’re bad. It doesn’t mean that the therapist is bad. They might be a really nice person. You might be a really nice person, and it just might be one of those trying to fit the square peg in the round hole. I think what most people do at that point is they tend to ghost us and leave.

However, what I would encourage you to do is to go to your therapist and to say something just doesn’t feel right here, or something doesn’t feel like it’s working. If you are able to articulate what that is, then you guys can kind of make a determination if you can switch gears or not, or if it’s better for you to move on and see somebody else.

Feedback is super helpful in any relationship, but therapy is actually just a gigantic feedback loop if you think about it. You come into the therapist’s office, you talk through some things that therapists may provide some type of guidance, or through the process of talking through things, you may develop some insight about what your next step is.

You go, oh, okay, well this makes sense as my next step. You go out into the world and you try it. Then you come back a week later and you say, Hey, this really worked for me. This didn’t work for me. Hey, I got stuck at this point. What do I do now? And you continue to refine that process over time. One example of a yellow flag would be if you just don’t feel particularly safe with your therapist emotionally.

Maybe you feel like you’re talking about certain things and they just don’t seem to understand where you’re coming from. You don’t get that feel or really deep sense of empathy and validation for what you’re experiencing. I had someone recently describe to me a therapist as just feeling kind of cold to them.

Now that therapist may not be cold, but that was that person’s perception. Sometimes people might cure, but not really be as expressive as you need or know how to express themselves in that way. Now, what I’m about to say is a broad overgeneralization about OCD therapists, so know that they’re not all like this.

My experience has been with several OCD therapists or that specialize in this area. Some of them tend to be highly clinical, highly research based, highly intellectual, over emotional, and if you are a highly sensitive client who has a high experience of emotion, and you get connected or sitting down with someone who’s more.

In a very professional and less personable realm that might not feel good to you. Now, as I said, not all OCD therapists are like this. We had Judy Lair comes to mind on the show, and even though she does ERP, she’s very playful. She’s a fun person. She’s energetic. She doesn’t fit that stereotype. And I know other people that we’ve had on the show don’t fit that stereotype, but there are some people in the OCD therapy community that are pretty straight laced, and to some people they may come across as cold.

Now to other people, they may come across as professional intellectuals, and that’s exactly what they’re looking for. What we’re really talking about here is that it comes down to personal preference. Personal preference when it comes to therapy is not wrong. So if you don’t feel a connection to your therapist, don’t walk away and think, oh, it must be something about me, like that must be my fault.

No, you are not meant to gel with every single person on the planet. We are called to love people and we are called to care about people and treat them well, but some people we’re just gonna have more of a connection or initial click with than others. A yellow flag for you might be if a therapist doesn’t understand, empathize, or respect your values.

So I’ve also heard feedback from other people I’ve talked with through the podcast who feel like, you know what? I am seeing this counselor. They’re very knowledgeable about OCD, but they just really don’t understand my faith. They don’t understand how the faith is interacting with the OCD. I’ve even had people say things like, I just felt like my therapist wasn’t taking concepts like hell seriously enough.

And obviously that’s problematic. I don’t think that you have to experience everything that somebody else has experienced in order to be able to empathize with them. I think there can be situations where you can see a secular counselor and feel like your faith is respected or feel like they can at least empathize even though they don’t, they might not share your same faith, however.

There are other clients who definitely would say, Hey, I feel so much more comfortable seeing somebody who is a strong Christian and who I know shares my faith. And obviously that’s why a lot of people end up seeing me is because I’m very open about my faith on my website and through this podcast. I think we’re so much more likely to progress and feel better if we feel like our therapist is aligned with us and fully empathetic of our value system.

If you have a relationship with Christ, that should affect everything, including your therapeutic relationship in some way, shape, or form. Now, let’s assume that you have a good relationship with your therapist. You feel like you’re on the same page, you feel like you have a good gel and a good working relationship, good communication.

However you feel like whatever their approach is towards your OCD, that it’s just not working. Maybe they’re not addressing your OCD and that has become a. Bigger problem in your world. So you might have gone to therapy for relationship issues and maybe the OCD wasn’t as big of a deal, or you went for some particular trauma and now the trauma has been treated and the OCD is still there.

We’re complex, right? And as life changes and things happen. We may grow and change in different ways, and you may have, for lack of a better way to say it, outgrown what your therapist is able to give you, and that is okay as well. Maybe they were a very key figure in your life of helping you walk through that trauma, walking through grief and loss, walking through relationship heartache, and now you’re at a place where you need somebody that’s more specialized in working with OCD.

It really frustrates me to no end and makes me want to internally scream when I hear therapists talk about how effective the therapeutic relationship is towards change. Okay? Yes. When you are dealing with relationship issues, but know when you are dealing with specific mental health concerns like OCD.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of therapists running around out there who are saying that they treat OCD and they really don’t have an in-depth understanding and knowledge of how to treat OCD, or they may be able to treat somebody with a more mild case of OCD, but not a moderate to severe case of OCD.

It’s highly important that therapists are upfront in their marketing of what they have experience with and what they don’t. That is ethical as well. We can’t misrepresent ourselves. I would say don’t be afraid to ask questions. If you see someone that looks like they might be a good fit for you, and they say on their profile.

They work with OCDI would want to know, hey, about what percentage of your caseload are OCD clients or how many people do you think would you estimate that you’ve treated in the last five years with OCD? And we’re trying to find out is this handful of people that they’ve seen over the years, or is this a good chunk of their practice?

And if you have a moderate to severe case of OCD. That’s impacting you hours out of your day with obsessions and compulsions, you need to see a specialist. I don’t care how much you love your therapist and how much they’ve helped you through other things, if you’re gonna make progress in your OCD, you need to find somebody who’s doing ICBT or ERP in order to get the relief and results that you’re looking for.

Non-negotiable. A better relationship with your therapist is not going to resolve OCD. An additional yellow flag that I want to point out is that therapy should be more about you and what’s going on with you than it is about what’s going on with the therapist. So I’d like to discuss the issue of self-disclosure in therapy because unfortunately, many therapists in today’s day and age over utilize self-disclosure and it just drives me a little batty, like nails on a chalkboard.

You’re not supposed to come into therapy and you say something and then the therapist says something relatable like you’re at a friend having coffee. That’s not what therapy is designed for. It is really to be designed for what you are bringing in, what your needs are. The focus needs to be on you and not the therapist saying, Hey, when I went through that, this was how I dealt with it.

Unfortunately in my own therapeutic process, I’ve seen some people for one or two sessions where this was really a big issue and I just had to kind of get out of there. No matter what I’ve been through, I know it’s still not the same exact thing that my client is going through in their life. I might share something, but I’m also.

Cautious and hesitant to make sure that that’s gonna be appropriate and be most beneficial to the client, not just because I have something to share that would be relatable. I also bring this up because you might run into this with therapists who have shared experience with OCD. Depending on their professional background, and you have to decide also as a client what you feel most comfortable with.

I sit with people’s stuff on a regular basis, I think, and so when I go to therapy, I really don’t want to hear all about what the therapist has been through and how they’ve overcome certain things. I had a really great therapeutic relationship with somebody that hardly shared anything about herself.

And the day that she did, because she held back so much, the day that she did was only because I was like, no, you don’t understand this. We were in like a bit of an argument and I was like, you don’t get it. And she was like. I’ve been through this and that really helped me understand like, no, she did actually get it.

I think there are times where self-disclosure can be super powerful in therapy, but too many times in today’s day and age, it’s not. It’s more routine than a powerful, if you feel like your therapist spends a lot of time talking about themselves and you want to get away from that, that is your prerogative and you can.

Let’s say that you really love your therapist and you’ve made some good progress, but maybe it’s just time to get a different perspective, and I want you to know that that’s okay too. This reminds me of a client I had many years ago. I worked with her for a couple years, and it’s one of those situations where I’m like, oh, man, if I worked with that person now, I probably would’ve done some things differently.

We all have that right? But she was transitioning, I think, to a different job and was gonna have to change scheduling wise or wasn’t gonna be able to come in because of her job. And I had told her I would be happy to see you again. However, I also respect. Because we’ve done a lot of work together that if you just feel like you need a fresh set of eyes on your situation, then you are totally free to find somebody maybe with a little bit different perspective that might be able to give you something different and just know that that’s okay.

I think in this scenario, a lot of people don’t leave their therapist because it feels uncomfortable and they feel like. Oh, I really like this person and I want to keep doing this, but yet there’s this little bit of aching of, maybe there’s something more, maybe there’s a deeper level of healing that I can get to that I’m just not getting it from my current therapy situation.

I’ve talked about this before on the podcast for me personally, that there have been times where I specifically sought a male perspective, and that was super helpful for me. I’ve also had people go to individual weekly therapy for quite some time, or try EMDR in that context and come to me saying. You know what?

I think an intensive would really be a better fit for me because I’m going to have a longer time to really get into the trauma and get into the depths of my nervous system to be able to heal from this, and I just don’t think that once a week therapy is really getting me there where I need to be. I personally love doing deeper level work with clients.

I know that it can be so powerful and transformative. I wanna end by talking about what if your therapist recommends that you see someone different? We’ve talked about this a little bit earlier in the episode where I said. Your therapist may say, Hey, I see that you might need this particular modality that might be helpful for you, or It seems like maybe you need somebody a little less directive in my case or in somebody else’s case, a little more directive.

Just know that if that’s coming from your therapist, that I would hope that it’s coming from a good, compassionate place. Of them wanting to make sure that you’re getting what you need or if they say, Hey, OCD is not really my specialty, and I think you need to go see someone who has much more experience or works with more OCD clients than I do.

There’s two things that I’d want you to know in that situation. One is that’s a hard conversation for us as therapists because we know it can feel so rejecting to our clients. For us to be able to say, I think it’s time for you to move forward and pursue therapy with someone else. Even though it’s a hard conversation, it’s in your best interest because if I don’t feel like I can give you what you need, I wanna make sure that you can get connected with someone who can give you what you need.

So do your best to try not to take it as a personal rejection, or, oh, my therapist doesn’t want to work with me. I have in the past, often referred out clients who are dealing with some addiction issues. And that didn’t come to surface in the beginning. Or maybe they felt really uncomfortable and didn’t wanna share that they were struggling with an addiction.

Maybe they didn’t see it as a big deal. But then as we uncover things over time, we start to realize that that’s an issue. And that’s not something that I have a ton of training in. I have a little bit, but not enough to see someone who has a serious addiction issue, or if someone has a. Severe eating disorder, I’m gonna wanna make sure that they get appropriate treatment with someone who specializes in that type of care.

I see a lot of people who have disordered eating or maybe some more mild eating disorder characteristics that’s different. So if your therapist refers you out, just know that can be an incredibly loving thing for them to do, even though it’s probably gonna be hard on both of you because you have developed a relationship together.

Wherever you are in your therapeutic journey. I really hope that this conversation has been helpful for you and informative. You can reach out to me anytime @carriebock.com. Until next time, may you be comforted by God’s great love for you. Christian Faith in OCD is a production of by the Well Counseling.

This podcast is for informational purposes only, and should not be a substitute for seeking mental health treatment in your area.

139. Is There a Test for OCD?

Written by Carrie Bock on September 4, 2024. Posted in OCD, Podcast Episode.

Carrie explores whether there’s a test for OCD and delves into the Yale-Brown Obsessive Compulsive Scale (Y-BOCS) Version 2 in this insightful episode.

Episode Highlights:

How OCD assessments can help differentiate between OCD symptoms and other mental health or spiritual issues.

What to expect from the Y-BOCS assessment

The benefits of using assessments like the Y-BOCS 2 to guide treatment decisions

The importance of getting a formal OCD diagnosis from a trained professional.

Episode Summary:

Hi, I’m Carrie Bock, your host of Christian Faith and OCD. Today, we’re diving into an important topic: the YBOCS (Yale-Brown Obsessive Compulsive Scale) and its role in OCD assessment.

In this episode, I’ll explain how the YBOCS 2, an essential tool in OCD treatment, helps identify and measure obsessions and compulsions. This assessment, which you can complete on your own, provides insight into the severity of your symptoms and guides our therapeutic approach. I’ll share how it’s used at different stages of treatment and why it’s crucial for understanding and managing OCD effectively.

Understanding your OCD through assessments like the YBOCS can clarify your symptoms and improve your treatment plan. It’s not about labeling but about gaining insight into your struggles and finding the best path to healing. If you’re interested in learning more about my services or scheduling an intensive therapeutic retreat, visit carriebock.com.

You can learn more about my services here.

Related Resources:

YBOCS (Yale-Brown Obsessive Compulsive Scale)

More Episodes to Listen To:

118. How Do I know if this Thought is an OCD Obsession? with Carrie Bock, LPC-MHSP

Transcript

Episode 139. Is there a test for OCD? Hang on, you’re about to find out.

Hello and welcome to Christian Faith and OCD with Carrie Bock. I’m a Christ follower, wife and mother, licensed professional counselor who helps Christians struggling with OCD get to a deeper level of healing. When I couldn’t find resources for my clients with OCD, God called me to bring this podcast to you with practical tools for developing greater peace.

We have our first Zoom hangout coming up next week. This is where we let individuals on our email list submit questions for me to do a q and a chat with you once a month. We’d love to have you join us, and there’s still just a little bit of time to hop in on that to be in the know and become an insider.

Join our email list@carriebach.com. I wanted to talk with you today about an important OCD assessment called the YBOX 2. This stands for Yale Brown Obsessive Compulsive Scale. It’s in its second version. We’ll put a link in the show notes for you if you’d like to take it. It can be completely done on your own.

The first section talks with you about obsessions that you may be having and you can answer yes or no depending on your experiences with those. I like it because each one has a little bit of an example with it too that helps. There are questions right after that ask you to rate on a zero to five scale how severe these obsessions are bothering you.

Then the next part of the assessment has to do with compulsions. And once again, there’s a zero to five scale on how badly they’re bothering you or impacting your life. This assessment is scored from 0 to 50, and a lot of times we find it helpful in the counseling process. Usually I’ll give people the Y box at the beginning of treatment.

We can also look at it maybe in the middle to see if what we’re doing is working or see if we need to switch course at all. And then it’s a nice follow up at the end. I don’t usually necessarily give it to people at the end, but if they wanted to see how their scores decreased or were impacted over time, that would be a good objective measurement for you as you’re going through your process.

It’s interesting to me how many people I’ve talked to that have received OCD treatment before, yet never been assessed with an assessment like this, or maybe they did and don’t remember. When we know how much OCD is impacting someone, we can make guidance and recommendations regarding next steps for courses of treatment.

It may be an objective way of saying, hey, this is really impacting you. Have you thought about getting on medication? If the score is very high, it may be a conversation surrounding intensive outpatient therapy or if the person’s just really not functioning well in their environment, they may need some type of residential program until they can get to treatment.

a place where they can function well enough to be at home or to be back in outpatient treatment. Obviously, we want people to receive the best care as possible, so they’re getting everything they need, while at the same time balancing that we don’t want someone to be in what we’d call a higher level of care, like intensive outpatient, if they don’t need to be.

If they can manage their symptoms at home with medication and outpatient therapy, that’s the ideal, right? One thing I hear from people after they take the Y Box, clients that have come in, will usually tell me, wow, after taking that and seeing all the different examples of obsessions and compulsions, I didn’t realize how many of these things were OCD.

I had chalked some of them up to maybe anxiety. So even just taking the assessment provides a greater level of awareness sometimes for people. I find the majority of people with OCD who are coming into therapy are what I call self diagnosed. They found something like this podcast or they found blog articles or talked with other people maybe that have had OCD who guided them down a pathway of receiving information.

I think all of that is very helpful and beautiful because People didn’t have that type of information at their fingertips regarding mental health 20 years ago, probably not even 15 years ago, the same amount of information that’s out there now. It’s not uncommon for people to seek therapy and tell me, I think I have OCD.

But I’ve never been formally diagnosed by a counselor or by a psychiatrist. Having this objective measure of the why box gives us a glimpse inside of what people are thinking and feeling without them having to necessarily name every single obsession they’re having. That’s another thing that I like about it.

It’s a lot easier for someone to click, yes, I’m having harm obsessions. then to verbalize those things to a therapist, that can be really difficult for people to express. If you have a child that might have OCD, there is also a child version of the Y Box, and the questions are better worded and suited for children.

Other assessments that I am not as familiar with are the Dimensional Yale Brown Obsessive Compulsive Scale and the National Institute of Mental Health Global Obsessive Compulsive Scale. So you may be asking yourself, why does it even matter if I have a diagnosis or not? What’s the benefit of having a diagnosis?

I OCD I really struggle with this concept of do I have this OCD diagnosis or am I making excuses for poor behaviors, whatever they determine the poor behaviors to be? Am I saying it’s OCD when it’s really a spiritual, moral issue? Am I saying it’s OCD when really I’m just being reckless, careless, or negligent in some way?

Is it OCD or relationship problems? This is exactly the benefit of a diagnosis. If you sit down, talk with a professional who’s trained in OCD, take some of these assessments, explain to them your symptoms. We don’t just base diagnosing on an assessment, obviously. Obviously, we’re going to talk with you and find out what your experience is like.

Take those two pieces into consideration before making a diagnosis. It’s not about just giving someone a label. It’s about helping you understand and explain your symptoms, helping you know why your brain works the way it does, how it’s getting stuck on certain things, what you’re engaging in to try to relieve that anxiety.

So oftentimes these assessment tools are really the first step in treatment to say, okay, here’s where we are and where can we go from here? It’s very similar. If you went to the doctor and got some blood work done and they said, hey, your A1C is high. Let’s try these lifestyle changes or let’s try this medication, whatever you’re going to throw at that first that you and your doctor determine, and then you’ll go back for blood work in a prescribed amount of time to check your A1C to see if it’s gone down.

It’s the same thing that we’re doing in a psychological sense of, okay, where are you at right now? What’s the best method of treatment for you considering your symptoms? And then we’ll reassess. We can always circle back around and say, Hey, is what we’re doing working? Is this medication that you’re on working?

Is the therapy component, are you really able to utilize the skills that you’re learning? Is that working? Do we need to try something different? Do we need to look at a different kind of care for you? I would encourage you not to see assessment or a diagnosis as a bad thing. It can be a really good thing and a good first step in your journey towards a healthier you.

If you’d like to see what services I provide, you can always go to karybach. com. I would love, love, love to book some intensives this fall, so if you are ready to dive into the deep end of the pool, work through some OCD, tackle some trauma, if that’s part of your story, then I’d love for you to schedule a consultation and we’ll talk about how an intensive therapeutic retreat may or may not be right for you.

We also have a previous episode on this. If you want to go back and listen to it. Until next time, may you be comforted by God’s great love for you. Were you blessed by today’s episode? If so, I’d really appreciate it if you would go over to your iTunes account or Apple Podcasts app on your computer if you’re an Android person and leave us a review.

This really helps other Christians who are struggling with OCD be able to find our show. Christian Faith and OCD is a production of By The Well Counseling. This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be a substitute for seeking mental health treatment in your area.

137. This One Thing Will Make OCD Worse Every Time

Written by Carrie Bock on August 20, 2024. Posted in Podcast Episode.

In this episode, Carrie dives into a crucial yet often overlooked factor that can make OCD symptoms flare up. Discover how to recognize and address this challenge to better manage your OCD.

Episode Highlights:

What often makes OCD symptoms worse.

How to recognize this hidden trigger in your life

Practical tips for managing this issue effectively.

Strategies for finding the right support and resources.

Episode Summary:

Today, we’re diving into a critical issue that exacerbates OCD every single time—stress. It’s something we need to recognize and learn to manage with self-compassion.

Why Stress Amplifies OCD

Stress is the one thing that will make your OCD worse every time. Whether it’s a positive stress like a job promotion or a negative one like a health issue, stress triggers OCD symptoms to morph and intensify. It’s crucial to recognize this connection and learn to mitigate stress to prevent OCD from taking over.

5 Tips to Mitigate Stress and Manage OCD

Recognize and Be Compassionate: Understand what you’re going through and be kind to yourself. It’s okay if you’re not coping perfectly—God’s grace is sufficient, and acknowledging your struggles is the first step to healing.
Exercise Regularly: Even if it’s just a 20-minute walk, moving your body can significantly reduce stress and improve your mood. Exercise has been shown to be as effective as antidepressants in many cases.
Focus on What You Can Control: Accept that you can’t control everything, especially other people’s actions. Learn to let go and trust in God’s plan, knowing that you’re doing your best.
Learn to Say No: It’s okay to decline opportunities that aren’t right for you in this season. Saying no to some things means saying yes to your well-being and to what truly matters.
Ask for Help: Don’t hesitate to reach out to others when you’re struggling. Sharing your burdens allows others to support you in meaningful ways.

Stress can be overwhelming, but by applying these tips, you can take control and manage your OCD more effectively. Remember, you’re not alone in this journey—God is with you, and there’s hope for a more peaceful, abundant life.

Tune in for more:

123. Three Reasons You Don’t Prioritize Self-Care with Carrie Bock, LPC-MHSP

Transcripts

Episode 137. There’s something that I have seen that makes OCD worse every single time. We need to be aware of it. We need to be on the lookout so that we can be self compassionate and also know how do we deal with it? How do we mitigate it? We’re gonna talk about that today.

Our new website is up and running. I want you to check out all of my offerings, therapy offerings, as well as what we have going on with the podcast at karybach. com. If you really want to stay in touch with what’s going on definitely get on our email list so that you can be the first to be notified about certain things.

I’m going to be seeking to just kind of hang out with you guys once a month on Zoom. So once I have all of that squared away and scheduled we will be letting you know about it on via email. What’s the one thing that will make your OCD worse every single time? That is stress. Okay, when your stress goes up, your symptoms are going to go up.

Doesn’t matter what kind of mental health condition you have, this is the case, but it’s especially true with OCD. Part of the reason that is because OCD does this thing where it likes to morph. It likes to shift and change themes on you. You’re plugging along and you think, ah, things are going okay. And then some stressful life event happens, and OCD is like, Oh, hey, let me hop on that bandwagon and now throw in some other theme for you to be dealing with.

When we talk about stress, there are some things in our life that are considered, quote, positive stress. These are the type of things that we want to happen, okay? You get a job promotion, you move into a new house. Steve and I moved this year. Incredibly stressful. Like we did everything possible to make it as least stressful as possible.

It was still stressful. Like we took our time. We really, you know, had a long process of packing things up. We labeled, we did easy meals during the process. There was just so much, and it was still incredibly stressful. Getting married. It’s a joyous time. I mean, Getting married is a good thing, but it can be very stressful.

There’s a lot of logistics you’re trying to figure out and put in a row. Having a baby, you’re not sleeping as well, you’re eating maybe thrown a little off. All of these different things that are positive, even your kids sports schedules. If you have a kid that, you know, it’s really a high sports season for them, and you’re gone 2, nights a week, it What I’ve learned from parents is if you have one kid in sports, you’re probably gone about two to three times a week.

You have two kids in sports, you’re gone every night of the week. It’s just like hanging up, you know, sometimes Monday through Saturday is toast. These are things that you’re wanting to do, let’s say, and wanting to be involved in. So it’s positive stress, but we’ve still got to learn how to take care of ourselves, and how to factor in how to manage that stress, or reduce it as much as possible.

How can we mitigate it? And then you’ve got those positive stress things, but you then Negative stress happens to all of us at one point or another. You’ve got illness, whether it’s, you know, I’m sick right now getting over an illness that I got from my daughter that has kind of put me out of commission a lot this week.

It could be a chronic health issue that you’ve been dealing with. You can’t seem to get rid of it. You keep going to the doctor, this doctor and that doctor. And you may have that, or you may have a family member who’s dealing with health issues that you’re caregiving for. Caregiving can be a lot. You may experience something happenings at work.

You either lose your job, like unexpected layoff, write up, maybe your boss is just out to get you, doesn’t like you, or is trying to micromanage you in some way. Job stress is the real deal. I worked in a toxic work environment in the past. I know what that experience is like. I know what it’s like to be afraid of getting fired.

To the point where I threw up one night over it. And then I finally just said, I cannot let this affect me this way. And had to get to the point where I said, God is in control and if they fire me, they fire me. I can only do so much. I have done all that it is that I can do to please these people. And that is all I can do.

It’s not worth your health. Take it from me. If you have conflict in any of your close relationships, especially intimate relationship, like with a spouse, that can be highly stressful. If one person has their foot out the door, maybe you’re the person that has your foot out the door, that’s stressful, okay?

If you’re going through a situation in hard economic times, You don’t know how you’re going to put food on the table, clothing for your, you or your kids, housing. You can’t find the housing in your price range that you need. That’s, you know, a huge issue in today’s society. If you have a death of a loved one and you’re going through a grief and loss process, all of these things.

It can be stressful and take a toll on you. So I have come up with five tips that I want to give you today to mitigate stress. If you say, yes, I raised my hand on several of those different things, I mean, I can tell you in my own life, as far as getting married. Having a baby, having a family member with a chronic health issue, and going through grief and loss.

I went through all of those things in probably a three year period. It was a lot, okay? And so when you have multiple of these things going on and it’s compounded, here’s some ways that you can mitigate stress. Number one, recognize what you’re going through, how stressful it is, and go easy on yourself, okay?

Open yourself up to a sense of compassion. You’re not perfect, you’re not gonna be perfect, and I would say even you’re not gonna cope you. perfectly. Like, what does that mean? You’re not going to cope at 100 percent capacity. Maybe you feel like, Oh, I was doing so well at managing my day to day stress. I had a workout routine or I was putting healthy foods in my body.

I was meal planning and you were on a really good flow and you got thrown off by one of these unexpected health things that came up. You know, maybe you got sick. Maybe you had a job stress and all of a sudden they were wanting you to work 45 hours a week and you got thrown off your course. Be compassionate towards yourself.

I think sometimes when we sit down and we recognize, wow, I’ve got a lot going on. And this is something that I have to do for people. in therapy sometimes, just give them a reality check. Like you do realize what you’re telling me, right? Like you’ve been through some stuff and you’re here and you’re putting one foot in front of the other.

That says something, you know, sometimes you hear people that have been through a lot of trauma and I’m like, how did you make it to this point without dying? I don’t even know how you’re here. So just recognizing that God gives us this sense of, Resilience, and it’s by his grace and mercy that we have even made it as far as we have in this life.

I do not know how I would still be standing if it were not for the Lord. Just recognizing, like, it’s okay. That I’m not coping at 100 percent capacity. It’s okay that I have relapsed a little bit with my OCD and I’ve gotten sucked into some rituals and some routines that I normally would have said no to, but I’m going through this stress and it’s kicked up into high gear.

Just being compassionate with yourself. Tip number two is to exercise. I know that this can be hard sometimes because you’re thinking I’ve got so much going on I don’t have time to exercise. Find that 20 minutes to take a walk outside. Do a little bit of walking on your lunch break. Do a few squats when you first get up in the morning or some planks.

Do something, move your body, stretch before you go to bed. Just do something that’s really going to help your mind and your body. I’ve talked about this before, antidepressants and exercise have gone like head to head with each other in psychological studies. Whether the people were taking medication or not, the people that exercised always fared really well as far as their mood goes.

So exercise is really good for your mind and for reducing the level of stress and anxiety that we hold in our body. Tip number three for mitigating stress, this one’s so huge, recognize what is actually in your control. Okay, back to toxic work situation. I got written up over some stuff that was flat out lies, just gonna throw that out there.

Some of it was flat out lies and I realized I cannot control if these people are over here lying about what kind of work I’m doing. I am showing up. I am doing the very best of my ability. May not be the best at my job. But I am putting in the effort and I did care and I think that’s why it upset me so bad because I was like, man, I’m like, I really do care like about doing a good job.

It was not in my control. Some of the things that happened in that work environment, there were expectations that were put on me. It’s like, I don’t have control. control always on meeting those expectations because they had to do with other people were involved, right? So you can only do what you can do about a situation.

If you are working with other people and if you’re pulling your weight and they are not pulling their weight, there’s nothing that you can do about that. You’ve got to let it go. We can get super worked up over other people’s poor behavior. Not just in a work environment, but in family situations, people not doing what they need to do, not carrying their weight.

What you have to learn to say is, I’ve got to have grace. I’ve got to let some things go. I’ve got to set boundaries where necessary and healthy, but then that’s it. That’s all I can do is speak my piece, speak the truth and love, and move forward. You cannot control other people. You cannot make them do things they don’t want to do.

The problem that I see with OCD is it’s going to tell you that you can control some stuff that you can’t really control. It’s going to tell you if you jump through this hoop, or you seek that reassurance, or you research this, then you really can stay safe. Nope. Nope. Not in control of that. You can do all the googling you want and still get a health issue.

You can seek all the reassurance you want, and you can still be more confused than when you started. Don’t believe the lies the OCD is telling you. Number four, this goes along with setting boundaries. Don’t be afraid to say no. There are some things that I would really love to be doing right now. I can think of some volunteer work I’d love to get involved in.

I can think of some extra things that they would love for me to be doing at the church that I have been asked to do and I would love to do. However, I cannot do it all. I’ve had to realize that. Certain things have come up recently and just something in my spirit was like, no, I am not doing that. It’s not bad.

It’s a good thing, but it’s just not for me right now. I need to not get burnt out, not get overwhelmed. And some things are good things, but they’re not for this season. And if you’re in a season of stress and busyness and struggle, it’s okay for you to say no. It’s okay for you to say, man, that’s a great opportunity.

Thank you so much for thinking of me. It’s just not the right season for my family right now. Oh, hey, you want me to work on that project with you? Can we do that after soccer season is over? Is that okay? When we say no to some things, that means we’re saying yes to other things, even if that is yes to rest for this season, because you have a lot of stressful things going on, or if that is yes to taking care of yourself and giving yourself time.

time to reflect or journal or be with God, be in contemplation because you’re going through some emotional things right now. That’s okay. It’s okay to say no. Tip number five for mitigating stress is to ask for help. Other people cannot throw you a life preserver if they don’t know that you’re drowning.

I’m talking to myself on this one because this is one I’ve struggled with for a long time, asking for help. I would like everybody to think that Carrie has it going on over here and all her ducks are in a row. They are not, most of the time. God has shown me that I need to live in humility and allow other people to love me.

because I do have people in my life who do care about me and want to step in and help when needed. So I don’t need to be afraid to reach out and say, Hey, I’ve got this going on. Or, Hey, can you pick up my daughter? Because I’ve got to be over here dropping my husband off at this appointment. Can you watch my daughter for a couple hours so that my husband and I can get a much needed date?

It’s hard sometimes to be vulnerable. It’s hard to reach out for help. Sometimes you may not feel like you have the support system or you have people that you can ask. And I’ve definitely felt that at different points in life. or had those seasons that felt more lonely than others. But what I’ve noticed is usually there are people in our lives somewhere, even if you may not have talked to them in a little while, or it’s somebody that you haven’t taken the full time to cultivate the relationship.

We’re really worried sometimes about burdening people or being Too needy or too much. But if you are the kind of person that you’re going to go out of your way to help somebody when they need something, they’re going to know that about you and receive the relationship as reciprocal. You know, we can’t be asking all the time and not ever giving to others.

There has to be a balance there. Even if you don’t have a physical need or that someone can meet, I would still encourage you to share with other people how they can be praying for you too. That’s a huge one. Be vulnerable and let people know, hey, this is something that I am wrestling with God with. Even if you don’t give them all the details, you just say, Hey, I’ve been really stressed out with work or I’ve been just stressed out with the kids or a variety of different things going on in my life.

Please pray for me. That goes a long way and people will be willing to lift you up in prayer and love and support you. If you’re going through a period of stress right now, Just know that it’s not always going to be this way. You’re not always going to feel as stressed as you do right now. And hopefully, if you can put some of these tips into practice, it’ll help you get through this stressful season when your OCD is flaring up.

If there’s some way I can help and support you in this process, I would love to be able to do that for you. Until next time, may you be comforted by God’s great love for you. Were you blessed by today’s episode? If so, I’d really appreciate it if you would go over to your iTunes account or Apple Podcasts app on your computer if you’re an Android person and leave us a review. This really helps other Christians who are struggling with OCD be able to find our show.

Christian Faith in OCD is a production of By the Well Counseling. This podcast is for informational purposes only, and should not be a substitute for seeking mental health treatment in your area.

115. Choosing Supplements for Anxiety with Dan Chapman of Redd Remedies

Written by Carrie Bock on March 13, 2024. Posted in Anxiety, Podcast Episode.

In this episode, Carrie explores the link between emotional health and gut health with Dan Chapman, founder of Red Remedies, emphasizing the role of high quality supplements in promoting overall well-being.

Episode Highlights:

The connection between emotional health and gut health, and how stress can impact digestion and overall well-being.

Christian perspective on stewardship over our bodies and emotional well-being

Understanding the role of herbs and natural remedies as part of God’s provision for health.

The benefits of using supplements, such as those offered by Redd Remedies, to support emotional health and overall well-being.

What to look for in a natural health brand and why transparency in sourcing and
testing is crucial.

Take advantage of a 20% discount on any Redd Remedies product using code HOPE20 at checkout.

Episode Summary:

Welcome to Christian Faith and OCD, episode 115! I’m Carrie Bock, your host and a licensed professional counselor based in Tennessee.

Today, I’m thrilled to welcome Dan Chapman, founder of Redd Remedies. We met after the AACC conference to discuss the benefits of supplements for managing anxiety.

In this episode, we cover:

Gut Health and Anxiety: We revisit the link between gut health and anxiety, a topic we explored in episode 44. Dan explains how stress can impact gut health and neurotransmitter production, creating a cycle that affects both physical and emotional health.
The Stress Response: Dan discusses how chronic stress impacts digestion and overall health. He emphasizes the importance of rest and recuperation, as God designed us to need both work and rest.
Natural Remedies: We explore the benefits of herbal supplements and how they can support stress management. Dan shares how Redd Remedies creates formulas to nourish the body rather than just stimulating it.
Supplement Quality: Dan highlights what sets Redd Remedies apart, including their commitment to quality and purity. He compares it to finding a top-notch restaurant versus a mediocre one, underscoring the importance of ingredient quality and effective formulation.
Consumer Choices: Dan addresses common questions about choosing supplements, such as the difference between high-quality and inferior products and the effectiveness of various forms of supplements.

I hope this episode brings you valuable insights and practical advice as you work towards better health. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe and leave a review to help others find this resource.

Check out the latest episode:

44. How Can Improving Gut Health Help Your Mood? with Maggie Roney, MS, NCC, LPC

Transcript

Welcome to Christian Faith and OCD episode 115. I am your host, Carrie Bock, licensed professional counselor in Tennessee. We talk about a variety of different topics on this show with a goal of reducing shame, increasing hope, and developing healthier connections with God and others. We’re constantly talking about the overlap between our physical health, our mental health, emotional, and spiritual health, since this is a Christian podcast.

Today on the show, I have with me Dan Chapman, who is the founder of Redd Remedies. That’s two D’s in Redd for those who are listening and not looking at our show notes yet, but we’ll put that in there for you. I’m happy to have Dan here. We connected a little bit after the AACC conference to have a chat about supplements and their benefits for anxiety.

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Carrie: Welcome to the show.

Dan: I’m grateful to be here with you, Carrie. Thanks for having me today.

Carrie: We’ve talked in the past on our show about gut health and the connection to anxiety. I interviewed, I think it was a functional medicine doctor. It’s episode 44, if anybody wants to go back and look at it: How Can Improving Gut Health Help Your Mood? We talked about neurotransmitters like serotonin and things being affected. A lot of that is my understanding is formed in your gut. Maybe for people who haven’t heard that episode, kind of give us a review of that connection between anxiety and gut health.

Dan: Absolutely. Oftentimes, we look at the health of our gut being a determining factor on what the health of your body is going to be, and that would include emotional health and all kinds of other health issues as well.

One of the things that I think is important to look at, though, it is not just the gut, but what is it, especially with emotional health issues that might cause you to have an unhealthy gut, which is therefore going to cause you to have some issues with maybe neurotransmitter production and digestive issues and other things like that.

It ends up being a little bit of a spiral and what I mean by that, is stress is going to cause your digestive system to change. What comes first, the digestive issue or the stress issue? When we have both of them, it can be a little bit of a spiral. I do want to give a little bit of hope that we’re not just going to share the bad news here today, but hopefully, some things that your listeners can do helpfully and positively to make positive changes. I do think it’s really important to understand what happens in the body. I really like to help people understand what happens when we have a stress response because we also need to recognize that God gave us a stress response. It’s not all negative, but there are changes that happen in your body physically under stress.

If we allow ourselves the time and the space to rest and to heal and to recuperate after that stress response. We’re okay. Our bodies are designed to go through that process, and we do it really throughout our lifetime. The problem happens is when we have this internal stress response that fires off over and over and over again. That’s where we need to make some changes.

One of the things that we know about stress is that during that stress response, your body literally shuts down the digestive system. You stop producing enzymes to digest food. You don’t process carbohydrates the same way. Part of that process is because during stress, your body needs to reprioritize the use of its energy.

You only have so much energy to go around, so your body is going to say, “You know what? I don’t need the digestive system to work at this moment. I’m going to put that energy into my muscles and my brain so I could respond the way I need to for survival.” If we live in that stress response, we live in a constant state of digestive enzymes not being produced the way that we need to, to digest food well, which is going to cause a host of other issues.

I like to back up not just talking about digestion, but I want to back up at some point and talk about what can we do to protect your body from the negative impact of stress.

Carrie: A lot of people are familiar with the fight, flight, or freeze. Some people have added now fawn to that, but then the opposite of that is rest and digest.

A lot of times we don’t talk about the rest and digest piece. As you’ve said, if people are in chronic states of stress, maybe due to caring for a loved one, Maybe due to past trauma, so they’re constantly getting triggered back to that time where they had to be in that fight, flight, or freeze mode, or the stresses of day to day life that people have that, whether it’s job, work, family, we live with a lot of stress, probably more than we need to.

We can lower that stress. That’s great. But sometimes we’re in situations where for a season, at least even we don’t have an option. We have to keep doing the things that we’re doing. And so this is great to talk about. Our digestive system doesn’t get that balance. It’s constantly in the fight, flight or freeze and doesn’t get that balance of the rest and digest energy.

Dan: I got my start in the natural food world because of my mother. My mom struggled with anxiety, fatigue, depression in the 1950s, a long time ago. And it was a long process for her to change her health. By changing diet and integrating herbs and nutrition, and part of the thing that I recognize growing up with my mother is that she had the mindset of always wanting to care for and serve other people, and sometimes she did not take care of herself well and when she needed to take care of herself, she almost had a sense of guilt because she wanted to be outward focused and help all of those around her. One of the things I think is just really important to recognize is we look at the fact that we are whole people. We can’t just look at stress or just look at digestion or just look at our diet or whatever the thing is.

God created us as whole people. One of the things that I love about the way that the Lord cares for us is in creation, He created night and then day. It’s been such a really remarkable thing for me to appreciate. That, you know, my view of the day typically is that, oh, it’s going to start at 6 or 7 or 8 o’clock in the morning, and that’s not true. Our day starts at night. We need to sleep and we need to rest and it’s out of that rest that we can go about having a good day.

The other reflection on that, that I think is important, at least it was impactful for me is to understand that in the creation process, Our first day as human beings, our first full day was Sabbath. So my week doesn’t start on Monday through Friday, and when I’m tired at the end of the week, I’m going to take the weekend and I’m going to rest and then recuperate from that long week. No, my week starts on Sunday where I’m going to rest. And out of that strength of rest, I can actually go about having a week.

I realized even the knowledge of that, like some of us and myself included can feel like, well, I just can’t do that. My schedule doesn’t allow for that. I don’t know how I would possibly do that. But it starts with the knowing that we have to rest first and out of that rest, we can go about living our life the way God created us to live.

Carrie: That’s such a great concept. All of these things that you’re talking about play on each other. I’m so anxious. I can’t sleep and then I’m not sleeping well and maybe I’m just grabbing something quick and not really thinking about what I’m eating or I’m eating too many carbs to try to get the energy flowing or drinking too much caffeine because I’m exhausted.

It just people get end up in this really negative cycle of their physical and emotional health. It’s like I feel terrible. But then I continue to do things that cause me to feel worse instead of helping my physical and mental health. So how do we get off of this treadmill, I guess, or negative cycle.

Dan: That’s a great question.I think this is definitely the place where We have some amazing herbs and vitamins and minerals, amino acids and things. I believe the Lord gave us because he knew, he knew from the beginning of time where we would be. I believe he gave us these tools to help our body deal with the place that we’re at.

We can start to make these little steps forward each day. We just need a little bit of improvement over the day before. We don’t need transformation by Friday. We just need a little bit of improvement and progress every day. That’s part of the reason that I started Red Remedies is I wanted to create formulas so an individual in a situation did not have to figure out, okay, what herb do I use? How much do I use? Do I put that together with that vitamin that I heard about or that mineral that I heard about? There’s so much clutter to work through. We put these formulas together in a way that allows us to get the results that we want for that individual, but also working with the body. Our formulation philosophy is we’re going to nourish your body.

We’re not going to push or stimulate it. We’re going to nourish and feed it because I believe a well fed body is going to do what the Lord created the body to do in the first place. So we are simply feeding and nourishing the body. We are using some herbs known as adaptogens. These herbs are going to protect your brain and your body from the negative impact of stress, and I will tell you these herbs are wonderful because it goes through all of the things that we just talked about earlier on this episode of the impact of stress when we live in that stress response that fires off constantly throughout the day, there is a significant negative impact physically on your body and in your brain. These herbs, they’re safe. They’ve been used for thousands of years. There’s so many studies around them. And literally the way I summarize is they protect you from that negative impact of stress.

Carrie: That’s awesome. We’ve all heard people say, okay, we’ll be talking with friends or family and they’ll say, well, have you tried this? Have you tried adding B vitamins? Or have you tried adding a probiotic? Or have you tried adding this? And next thing you know, you’ve got this table full of supplements and you’re like, I don’t know who’s doing what and if any of this is working and how is it going? So What you’re talking about, your products are blends of all of these different vitamins and herbs to help people with specific issues like sleep or digestion or brain function and anxiety so that you have a supplement that I actually started taking called at ease, which has been really great to just managing overall stress level.

I feel like for me, it’s been helpful. I got one for my husband too. I got him on nerve shield because he has a neurological condition and he has a lot of nerve pain specifically at night, more often in neuropathy issues. I said, do you think that’s helping you? And he said, yeah, definitely. And I was like, okay, well let’s keep taking it then.

I’ve noticed just two at night, less complaints from him or less issues of him being in so much pain that he was before. So that’s really a game changer for us to be able to use something natural and also not have to rely on prescriptions. If people are on medications for anxiety and OCD that are working for them, we’re all for that.

I talk with a lot of clients too who struggle because they’ve tried medication, they’ve gotten a lot of side effects, or they haven’t gotten the effectiveness that they’ve wanted. I find a lot of clients are looking for more natural remedies. So I’m glad that we’re having this conversation and talking about these things.

Dan: Definitely. That is exactly why I started Redd Remedies and put these products together. It’s because I had been working with so many people for many, many years. And it was so challenging to give them a B complex and then take these couple of herbs over here and you end up with four or five or six bottles of product to use for a single problem, and it’s difficult to take that many pills. It’s difficult to follow the instructions for what you need to do with each one of those products, whereas we put it together in a formula and it just makes it so much easier for the individual to use. And we find that a well designed formula will actually have a many times better impact, and the result that we’re looking for, then using a whole bunch of single ingredients that fill up your cabinet.

Carrie: Yes. Honestly, when I first heard about Redd Remedies and we started communicating via email and I thought, okay, like it’s a supplement company. That’s nice. There’s about a thousand plus supplement companies out there.

I wanted you to talk with us a little bit, because I’m sure, like I’ve said, people who are listening have heard, “Hey, take this vitamin or that vitamin,” and then you go to the store, there’s this whole rows of vitamins. And you’re looking at what makes this brand A different from this brand B over here.

How do I know that I’m actually getting what I’m getting? That’s one piece. How do I know that I’m getting what the bottle even says I’m getting? Second piece is like, how do I even know that my body’s really absorbing that and using that? Can you talk with us about those things as we’re trying to make consumer decisions?

Dan: Yes, that’s a great question, and we could talk for a few more days about that specifically. Let me try to give you just a little bit of an image, and then I’ll tell you just some more details about who we are. Yes, there are thousands of supplement companies out there, and it may be it’s similar to the fact that there’s also thousands and thousands of restaurants. All of us can go through our town and we know different restaurants. We know some are really, really good quality. They have got the five star and they have got the chef that went to school for how many years and he’s a master chef. And the food at that restaurant is incredible. And then there’s other restaurants that maybe not the same quality.

We know that, but it’s all food and you might even be able to get chicken at both of those restaurants or steak at both of those restaurants or a salad at all of those restaurants, but the quality is absolutely different. That is very much also true in the dietary supplement world. And so at Redd Remedies, we were a small, I consider us a boutique company.

We make only about 40 different products. Where we make a product, we’re very specialized in that area, so we have a handful of products for emotional health issues, if you will, and because we know that we need slightly different formula for the issues that different people might be experiencing. I also have on our team, a master herbalist, and that’s 1 of the things that sets us apart. While I personally have a very long history, I grew up using herbs and eating healthy foods, mostly because of my mother.

I have a long experience with that. It’s like second nature to me on my team. I have a lady who has an undergrad degree in biology and a master’s degree in herbal medicine. I will tell you that in particular is really part of what’s significantly sets us apart, and it’s no different than that 5 star restaurant with that master chef who can make chicken noodle soup, if you will, no different than maybe I’ll make chicken noodle soup with all the same ingredients, but that soup by that master chef is very different. They might use the same spices, but they know where to get them. They know when they should be harvested. They know exactly how that spice should be used and prepared in the right amount, along with the other spices they use. And that’s what happens when we put a formula together, uh, using our master herbalist.

We have lots of resources beyond that, so it’s one of the things that really separates us is the choice of the herbs that we’re using, the part of that plant that we want used, the type of the extract that we want used, and the way we want that herb prepared. You might see an herb or even a mineral on the label of 20 different herbal supplements, but that same quote unquote ingredient can be wildly different.

On each 1 of those products, just because of the source, the way it’s prepared, the type of extract. That’s 1 piece is we’re very particular about the ingredients that we put in. The other thing that we do is while I believe very much in building relationships with the places that we buy and get our herbs and our vitamins and minerals.

We definitely believe in accountability. We have a purity promise that we have designed ourselves. It’s a testing protocol. The reason we’ve designed it ourselves is I have not seen a testing standard. I’ll say in the world, that is a standard that we believe is going to do the job that’s necessary to ensure purity.

With the variety of herbs and things that you see out there, our master herbalist has put that program together, and we have a 3rd party lab that then manages that purity promise for us. If any of your listeners want more detail on purity, I don’t want to spend too much time there, but then go to our website at reddremedies.com/purity. We have a nice summary there, but also for those that really want the detail, they can download a white paper. That’s about 23 pages long. That will tell you what we do for testing and purity. I can just tell you that it’s what we do is different. No different probably than that 5 star restaurant where that chef is just really engaged in what he or she is making and cooking and preparing for their clients.

Carrie: Yes, I think that’s awesome and I appreciate the transparency there because not all brands are willing to peel back and let you know the details of some of those things. If you really want to get down into the dirt and the weeds and everything like that.

I also think it’s cool that you can become a master herbalist. Put that on your list of career goals for anybody that’s looking and interested in this area. That’s pretty awesome. Studying herbs and acquiring and how to use them and I like what you said about there’s a difference probably in terms of how you’re using the extract or dried forms of things and all of that stuff. I’m sure that makes a huge difference. It’s kike when we put fresh parsley and something versus if we use dried parsley and something, it’s going to make a difference in the end result.

When we met via Zoom a little earlier and had chatted, we got on the subject of gummy vitamins, which is super funny because when you go into the store now, it’s like, we’re all adults, but somehow there are just like tons of gummy vitamins. I was looking for, I think, maybe like a multivitamin or something at one point, and I was really struggling to find one that wasn’t a gummy vitamin. Why are these things so popular? And are we just kidding ourselves here? Are we really just eating candy and pretending we’re getting vitamins? What’s going on with these gummy vitamins.

Dan: Oh my goodness. Yes. As human beings, do we not love to just satisfy ourselves? Yes. That’s probably the best definition of a gummy. I want to do something good for myself, but yet I want to be satisfied. So, yeah, gummies have kind of taken the supplement world by storm. I hate to generalize because no doubt there are some gummy products out there that I would say absolutely have value, but I would say that is the minority.

It would be the very select few. The majority of the gummies out there, in my opinion, are probably not going to be worth the money that you spend on them. I would encourage you, if you can’t swallow a capsule or tablet, like in the multivitamin example, I encourage you to go find a good tablet chewable, not a sugar filled gummy chewable.

The reason for that is vitamins, minerals, and herbs can and do degrade. We want them to be pure and potent. And one of the things that will degrade a vitamin especially is moisture. If you think about a gummy, gummies are soft. We don’t think about gummy as having moisture in there. Most of us probably don’t squeeze a gummy and water doesn’t come out. But there is a moisture content in a gummy significantly higher than a capsule or tablet. You’re going to have some issues with stability for sure and so you want to make sure that it is a brand that knows how to do appropriate testing to ensure that what’s on that label is on the label.

I will just tell you that most brands are not testing properly. The other issue that you have with a gummy is just a physical issue of space. You can only put a very small amount of active ingredients in a gummy. Part of the issue is if you have a gummy and you’re going to chew like two of those or even three of those a day of some multivitamin, you’re really not getting much of anything.

I would encourage you to go to the produce stand and eat some lettuce and an apple or something or some blueberries, and you probably get more benefit from that. Hopefully that’s helpful. Most of what we use at Redd Remedies is a capsule. We do some tablets. We’re going to get really good stability in that and really good efficacy in that. You know, for the most part, stay away from your gummies.

Carrie: Yes, that definitely makes sense. I appreciate you sharing all of the different wisdom that you had, just talking about how we can make decisions and investigate companies. Let’s talk about a couple products specifically that you have at Redd Remedies for emotional health.

Dan: Certainly. You mentioned that you were using at ease and that certainly is one of the flagships in the emotional health area for us. AtEase is a product that people would use when the stress that they experience is more like anxious, nervous, tension type stress. I also look at AtEase as my caregiver product.

If you’re one of those listeners and you’re caring for everybody around you, AtEase will actually help kind of balance the emotions of that out because when you care for others, You’re giving a part of yourselves away in that process. So AtEase is definitely one of the products I find that most people probably listening here would definitely benefit from.

There’s another product called InJoy. And InJoy is for people whose stress really shows up as kind of depressive, low, melancholy type stress, where we just need that lift of the spirit. We also have and most of us could probably benefit from that will help us get a good restful night’s sleep. And so that’s an important one to look at.

And I don’t want to ignore brain awakening here is because all of us, especially with. Any emotional health issue, if we can feed and nourish and help the brain to function healthy and the way that it’s designed to, brain awakening would probably be a great choice for us as

Carrie: What does brain awakening do for your brain?

Dan: Yes, great question. So brain awakening is going to do three primary things. It is going to restore density to the synapse. Right? So the synapse, of course, as we know, connect our brain cells and we need healthy, dense synapse for the messages to go back and forth between our brain cells appropriately.

There’s a form of magnesium that we use because it’s those minerals or electrolytes that are going to help with electrical connectivity. And some amazing research on this specific form of magnesium to restore density to synapse. And then I also use a mushroom known as lion’s mane, which will nourish the health and the strength of that brain cell itself.

We use another herb called amla, which is an antioxidant that will protect the brain against damage, stress, plaque buildup, and so forth. We’re focused on the brain cell, the synapse, and protecting that structure to keep it healthy and strong.

Carrie: Wow. Several different angles there that you’re hitting it at. I like that.

At Hope for Anxiety and OCD, I’ve really made a decision not to just kind of, I don’t have random ads on my show, advertising luggage and random things. We’ve made a decision here to be an affiliate partner with Red Remedies. They have been so gracious to give us a coupon code, so if you put in HOPE20, you can try any of their products, not just the ones that we’ve talked about today, and get 20 percent off, and you’ll also be Helping support the podcast.

I really believe in what you’re doing there. I think that adding supplements to just an overall picture of your health, like you said, you can’t just ignore diet, exercise and sleep and then take a supplement and expect your life to be great. But in the process of working on our overall health, if these are products that could benefit you, I would encourage people to definitely try them. Thank you for being on the show and sharing with us today.

Dan: It’s been my pleasure.

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Christian Faith and OCD is a production of By the Well Counseling. Our show is hosted by me, Carrie Bock, licensed professional counselor in Tennessee. Opinions given by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of myself or By the Well Counseling.