Tag: Faith And OCD

233. When Health Issues, OCD, and Faith Collide: A Personal Story with Whitney Paige

Written by Carrie Bock on July 15, 2026. Posted in OCD, Personal Testimony, Podcast Episode.

In this episode, Carrie sits down with Whitney Paige to share how her journey through OCD, scrupulosity, chronic illness, and spiritual struggle reshaped her understanding of God’s love and faithfulness.

Episode Highlights:

Why chasing certainty often keeps Christians stuck in the OCD cycle.
The connection between chronic illness and mental health.
Practical ways to anchor your faith when your feelings tell a different story.
What scrupulosity can distort about God’s character and His love for you.
The role of community, treatment, and biblical truth in finding lasting hope.
Whitney’s award-winning book, By His Stripes, and how her testimony is encouraging Christians to trust God through OCD, chronic illness, and seasons of suffering.

Episode Summary:

How Can One Story Bring Hope to Christians Struggling With OCD?

I’m so excited for you to hear Whitney Paige’s story. Whitney is an author, OCD advocate, and the recipient of the 2026 Georgia Independent Author of the Year award for her book, By His Stripes. She joins me to share her personal journey through OCD, scrupulosity, chronic illness, and the spiritual questions that shaped her faith. If you’ve ever wondered whether God is still with you in the middle of suffering, I believe Whitney’s testimony will encourage you to keep holding on to hope.

Why Do So Many Christians With OCD Feel Like God Is Punishing Them?

One of the biggest struggles Whitney faced was believing her suffering meant God was disappointed in her. No matter how much she prayed, read Scripture, or worshiped, she never felt like she was right with Him. As we talk through her story, you’ll hear how scrupulosity distorted her view of God’s character and what began to change as she learned to trust His truth instead of her feelings.

How Are Chronic Illness and OCD Connected?

Whitney openly shares how living with chronic illness affected her OCD and anxiety, creating an exhausting cycle of physical pain, fear, and emotional fatigue. Our conversation explores how physical and mental health often influence one another, while offering encouragement for anyone carrying both burdens. Even when healing feels slow, there is still hope for the journey ahead.

What Happens When You Stop Chasing Certainty and Start Trusting God?

One of the themes that runs throughout Whitney’s story is the search for certainty. Like so many people with OCD, she wanted answers that simply weren’t available. We talk about what began to change when she stopped trying to solve every unanswered question and started placing her trust in the unchanging character of God instead.

How Can God Use OCD and Suffering to Encourage Someone Else?

Whitney didn’t wait until she had everything figured out before sharing her story. She wrote By His Stripes while still walking through her own healing journey because she wanted others to know they weren’t alone. Her testimony is a beautiful reminder that God often uses our greatest struggles to strengthen someone else’s faith and point them toward His hope.

Connect with Whitney Paige:

www.whitneypaigeco.com

Check out Whitney Paige’s book By His Stripes:

www.whitneypaigeco.com/author

Transcript

Christian Faith and OCD Episode 233

Carrie: Welcome, OCD warriors, to the Christian Faith and OCD podcast, where we are all about reducing shame and stigma of struggling with OCD as a Christian, sharing hopeful stories and replacing uncertainty with faith as you develop practical tools for greater peace.

I’m Carrie Bock, Christ follower, wife, mom, and licensed professional counselor in Tennessee. I pray you are blessed by today’s episode. Welcome back, everyone, to our personal story summer series. Today, we have a special guest. Whitney Paige is an author. She is a graphic designer and an outdoor enthusiast.

She is here to talk about her book, By His Stripes: Navigating Life With Mental And Physical Suffering. I have it right here. Whitney just found out that she has been honored as the Georgia Independent Author of the Year in twenty twenty-six. Congratulations. That’s exciting.

Whitney: And thank you so much for having me.

Carrie: Yeah. And you’re also an advocate with the International OCD Foundation. Is that correct?

Whitney: Yes. And I’m on the OCD Georgia board as well.

Carrie: Oh, awesome. Why did you decide to write a book about your experience, this navigation of mental and physical suffering?

Whitney: Yeah. I kinda just wrote the book that I wish I had when I was in the deep pit.

I really longed to hear from somebody that experienced something that I was experiencing. I genuinely thought I was the only one going through what I was going through with such torment. So a really simple goal, I wrote this book just to help one person feel less alone, then it would be worth it. It was a hard process, but sharing my story was a way to offer hope and give, like, a purpose to my pain.

Carrie: Yeah. That’s huge. You talk in your book about, like, the physical health struggles that you were dealing with, IBS. You also had some chronic pain issues that– that were very intense. Like, how did those two things play off of each other, like, the physical health affecting the mental health and the mental health affecting the physical health?

Whitney: That’s a great question. I feel like it’s kind of like an endless loop a little bit.

Carrie: Yeah. I

Whitney: also happen to have both physical and mental health challenges that connect the brain gut. I really feel like that significant connection, and I feel like I’m kind of a brick wall sometimes because my OCD, anxiety and depression, that often worsens my stomach pain, my fatigue.

I often found that when I’m in a OCD spiral or a depressive episode being super fatigued, that it really is a struggle to fight the OCD and fight depression and just because you’re just so mentally fatigued that you just don’t have anything. You can’t really recall all your toolboxes that you have and all that kind of stuff.

And that’s, again, why I’m thankful for my book ’cause I have a physical resource I could look back on when I’m having those episodes. But it makes it hard to manage the symptoms when you’re super fatigued and you have all All these health issues, and I think that it’s very challenging to determine what is causing what, and that’s a hole that I know now not to go down because I wanna figure it out, and I wanna know, is it my physical symptoms that are acting up, or is it my mental symptoms that are acting up?

But really, I’ve had to kind of lay that down and surrender and just not try to find any of the answers, just move forward anyway.

Carrie: What kind of OCD themes have you struggled with?

Whitney: That’s a long list. But I will say, kinda sums it up, and most of my OCD is invisible, and I’ll talk about that. Really, a lot of mental compulsions on a lot of various topics.

Scrupulosity is one main one, attacks my faith. Just constantly analyzing how I feel, if I’m not saved, not being right with the Lord. That’s kind of a big one. Another one is my brain anticipates and replays, like, violent accidents or events that haven’t happened, but I think that they are gonna happen to my loved ones.

Often, that’s referred to as harm OCD. I have kind of another one that I really deal with a lot, but I don’t really talk about it a lot, is existential OCD. It’s really like I’m just trapped in my brain about just distressing questions about what’s the meaning of life, what’s the meaning of this existence, kind of thing like that.

And then health OCD is really a big one for me. I think it might have come from all the things that I’ve dealt with, but again, I can’t go down that road and figure that out. But I do know that I struggled with a lot of health issues in the past, and I do have that consumed fear of when every symptom hits or what if this headache is a brain tumor, or what if the doctor’s missing something, or just kind of constant kinda health stuff for me.

Carrie: I can see how that would be easy to go down based on your own personal experience, where the doctors would run these tests and they’re like, “Ugh, I don’t know,” like, “I don’t know what’s wrong with you,” or, “Well, you’re having this symptom, but that’s really rare,” or something like that, or, “It’s not seen in people your age,” that type of stuff.

Tell us, kinda like tie that in a little bit to the zebra theme behind your book. So your book has a zebra on it. Tell us a little bit about that. I enjoyed that piece of the process.

Whitney: Awesome. Thank you. The zebra. I’m not gonna share everything ’cause you gotta read the book. Throughout my book, I kinda relate my story to a zebra.

Each chapter, I kinda bring it back to the zebra’s experience and bringing it back to what I experience and how they’re similar. At the end of the book, I kinda describe why zebras are so important to me and how they’ve kind of shaped my life. I literally– like, the Lord gave me By His Stripes as a title, and one of my dear friends, we were sitting, just talking about a book and just thinking, “Oh, my gosh, I can’t believe God told me to write a book.

This is big.” And we were just sitting and dreaming about it. The zebra, by his stripes, like, we just connected stripes with zebra and- It was kind of a moment like I’ll never forget. We were just like, “I don’t know what the cover’s gonna look like, but I know it’s gonna have a zebra.”

Carrie: Yeah.

Whitney: Yeah. So that was pretty cool.

Carrie: That’s awesome. It’s a nice way, I think, for different stories to come together and for people to kinda see, have a theme there. I wanted to talk with you about this quote from your book, and you brought this up kind of a little bit earlier. You alluded to it, but you said, “Take it from someone who has tried focusing on everything but God in a storm.

I often entertain thoughts focused on figuring out where the storm came from, how it got here, why it was here, where it’s going- What I will lose, how bad it will be, and these unanswered questions are like pouring gasoline on the fire. How have you seen, like, this trying to figure out all these things to be either harmful or at least not helpful to you or others that are on that OCD recovery journey?

I see this a lot.

Whitney: All the unanswered questions and uncertainty is just … It’s a big weight, especially with having OCD and having that just need for that certainty. I know everybody has kind of that in their daily walk, and I’ve just kinda come to what I have to choose what I focus on. And if I focus on the storm, that’s all I see, and I get even deeper into the storm.

I had to s- again, surrender just the act of, like, trying to figure everything out. Instead of that, I’ve kind of leaned more on an act of trust, and I quote in my book, I say, “I don’t have to understand what He is doing because I know what He has already done.”

Carrie: Yeah. That’s good.

Whitney: That quote seems like I have certainty, right?

But in reality, it’s not. It’s just trust. I’m trusting in my faith. You know, faith is about trust, not certainty. So I have to kinda remind myself that all the time, and to not listen to OCD and compare what OCD is telling me to the word of God, and build my life off that truth because God is the only one not changing.

My OCD, my feelings, my anxiety, my situations, everything is changing. And so I can stand on the foundation that doesn’t ever change, and that’s why I always have something to kind of combat the lies with truth. And every time I do that, I feel like being vulnerable, part of me, is another hard thing. It also develops greater resilience and just courage to, “Okay, I did that, and I can get through the next thing.”

It helps me in a way to kind of remember that.

Carrie: I think some Christians with OCD have a really hard time, like, trusting in the goodness of God. Did that come up for you, especially in the midst of suffering? It’s like, “I’m going through this really intense suffering. I wouldn’t wish this on anybody. It’s just really hard to deal with.

I don’t ever know what kind of recovery process I’m gonna be able to get to. Am I ever gonna be able to be in some kind of remission from this?” So there’s all these types of questions. I don’t know. Talk with us about that. Did you wrestle with, “Hey, God’s dumped a lot on my plate. It doesn’t feel like He’s good”?

Whitney: Yes, that’s a great question and a great point. And I’ve struggled with that a lot. That’s actually kinda one of my main struggles, is because I thought that all the pain I was experiencing, I thought God was punishing me because I was a bad Christian. And I kind of somehow down the road connected my pain to my relationship with Him because I never felt right.

Like, I never felt right with the Lord. I never felt like our relationship was okay. No matter what I did or how many times I prayed, how many times I read the Bible, how many times I’ve worshiped, I had that feeling. And so I struggled finding a good church all my life, and I’ve so thankfully found a church local.

It’s been such a blessing to me, and I was in a church service one time, and I still had this belief that God was punishing me. They preached very simple gospel in how, like, when sin entered the world, that wasn’t God’s original plan. God’s original plan was to be in basically paradise with us and to be fellowship with us.

But we had to go and change the rules and the plan by sinning, and I think that my brain just kind of, like, a light bulb went off of, like, that wasn’t his intention. But because that happened, that’s just new story, but the goodness of his graciousness in– like, comes into play of, like, me thinking, “Okay, well, he doesn’t really owe me anything.”

I mean, he’s already done everything for me, and he rewrote that story by dying on the cross for me and saving me. And so I’m kind of in this, like, waiting period right now that I am saved, but I’m still living in this sinful world, and that’s why trial there. It’s not anything that I did or that he’s doing to me.

I’ve had to kinda rewrite that story in saying that the only reason trials exist is because we live in a fallen world, to remind myself that he did not intend it to be that way. But he’s so good that he literally is with me through the trials and in the trials, and he gives me strength to get through them.

I mean, how is that… Like, that’s just the definition of a good God. He doesn’t leave you. He just gives you the strength to get through. I think a big thing in my journey is I’ve kind of come across, like, the saying, “Do the opposite.” Because I will say that nothing my OCD tells me is gonna be good, and I have just kind of come across this thing of, like, just do the opposite of what my OCD says.

It’s usually the opposite of what truth says as well, so it kinda works in that realm. And also, I really believe that there’s an active enemy trying to steal, kill, and destroy us, and I think that the enemy’s not gonna have anything to say as well. Once I realized that God was not punishing me, our relationship began to, like, change slowly and be able to trust Him a little bit more.

And every time that I come across, like, a roadblock, I– “Listen, we’re gonna do the opposite, and we’re gonna move forward.” And even though I still don’t feel right with God, I haven’t ever gotten that certainty. I’m just moving forward in faith. Some days are harder than others.

Carrie: Few key points that you’ve made is, is faith requires belief in something that we can’t see.

I think that’s one point that’s really important. And so we’re leaning into that one day at a time, and we don’t have all the answers. So trying to, like, get absolute certainty is a lost cause, essentially. I love what you said about just kind of like getting involved in a healthy church community. I think that’s so great for anybody out there that needs to hear that.

I wanted to talk a little bit too about what you’re saying with, I don’t know, with OCD, and I think scrupulosity specifically. There’s a lot of lies that people believe, and it’s not as easy as like, okay, find the lie and replace it with truth. But as you’re going through treatment and understanding these processes, you do have to kinda come to examine your own theology and what you actually believe about God.

And I think that can be a missing piece in different forms of OCD therapy if you don’t have somebody to help you navigate, whether that’s a pastor, spiritual mentor, leader, counselor, whoever that person is. Would you agree with that? Like, there just there’s a lot of Christians with OCD just kind of believing a lot of lies about God or about themselves or about the world.

Whitney: Yeah, I agree with that, and I’ve been in that boat, and I’m still trying to kind of fix my view of God because I feel like that really is my foundation. If He really is the Lord of your life, do you trust Him in every area? Do you go to Him for everything, even your OCD and anxiety? I’m not gonna lie, that’s like my number one struggle is fighting that lie and fighting those beliefs and trying to rewrite in my brain that He’s a loving God.

He died for me. What explains love more than that? Just kind of just have to constantly remind myself. I’m a big truth card person. I have truth cards right here. I have them all over my house. I have scriptures written down. I have just reminders that when I’m in the pit, I also have all these things on the wall, like inspirational sayings, all that kinda stuff.

Like, just because when you’re in it, you need those reminders. That’s why I have tattoos. It’s a constant reminder. I look down at my arm, and I remember.

Carrie: Yeah. What does your tattoo remind you?

Whitney: My tattoos are all about Jesus, except for there’s one, and it’s about my dog.

Carrie: Aw.

Whitney: It’s his heartbeat. I’m working on a sleeve.

I’m pretty proud of it, and they all point to Jesus in a different part of my journey.

Carrie: It’s like your testimony written out.

Whitney: Yeah, on my arm.

Carrie: Yeah. There you go. You have several different stories in your book about times where God really came through for you. One of them was, like, about going to New York for school.

That was, like, a very hairy, scary, but, like, you did the scary hard thing. And there were other stories too about animals and different things where what you couldn’t have imagined happened, happened. God totally provided a way for different things. Like, I kinda consider them like spiritual anchors. How did that strengthen your faith kind of as you were going through that process, and did that help you build more trust in God as good and loving?

Whitney: Yes, absolutely. I still to this day repeat to myself when I have to do something hard that I did New York City. I repeat it to myself all the time. Even there’s hard days, and I– it’s hard to go to the grocery store sometimes, and I repeat, “I did New York City. I’m going to the grocery store.” But yeah, spiritual anchor is a great way to explain it.

I think that each time God answers a prayer or a blessing, I remind myself that He owes me nothing, and this is purely out of His love for me. And it really helps me strengthen and grow my relationship with Him. And I think that what baffles me is that He just continues to pour His grace and His mercy in my life, like, and everybody’s story, and it’s just kind of like His act of love, not obligation.

But, like, that’s my greatest defense against OCD, because I have somebody on my side and I have somebody that loves me, and I have somebody that has done something, died on the cross for me, that will one day take my OCD away, and that brings me a lot of hope.

Carrie: Yeah. Just thinking about heaven is like, one day this will not be a struggle anymore, or I won’t have any of these physical digestive issues.

Everything will be new bodies. We’re getting new bodies.

Whitney: I don’t know what it’s gonna look like, but I know that I will be able to eat bread … which I’m highly allergic to. I will be in no pain mentally and physically, and it gives me hope.

Carrie: Yeah. And I think that’s important for people to hold onto. We can get so focused on the here and now and forget that’s not all there is, that God has something prepared, something ahead of time for us.

That’s really beautiful, and that we get to spend eternity with Him. What else do you wanna say just to the Christian OCD community, people really… Love these personal stories, and I think they latch onto them because probably they’re having maybe similar questions or struggles or obsessions that you’ve wrestled with and dealt with.

Tell us a little bit about, like, what going through treatment has been like for you.

Whitney: Yeah, that’s a good question. I’ve been suffering from OCD in silence for 29 years, and when I finally realized it, I remember reading a book that my dear friend helped me realize I had OCD. She gave me this book, and I read it, and it literally took my breath away of, like, that I was reading myself in the book.

It was just so powerful for me. That was kind of the moment that God was like, He gave me that little vision of, like, “You’re gonna do this one day.” I laugh because of where I was at, like, but I think about that memory often and how powerful it was for me to feel not alone and not being the only one. I think that fueled me, and I really wanted to hold onto that and use that as my motivation.

The OCD community has been such a blessing for me. I’ve kind of dove in, doing a lot with the OCD Georgia board and doing a lot with IOCDF and now this book. This book is my way of sharing my testimony. It doesn’t look like a mission trip overseas or something like that, but it looks like it for me, like what God wants me to do.

And I would encourage people to ask the Lord is, like, “What do you want me to do with my story?” I think that God has a purpose for everything, and so ask Him what the purpose is for your OCD, because it might just be to bring hope to others that don’t have it and to be there for others. I kinda encourage you to ask the Lord that.

Carrie: Yeah, I think someone that was going through some immense suffering and had actually, you know, lost his daughter, he had said, “I don’t recommend people ask the question why, like, ‘Why is this happening to me? What’s going on?’ But more to ask, ‘What is God doing?’ Like, what is God going to do through this? How is He going to use this?”

Whether it’s in your life or in someone else’s life, I think that those are definitely, like, very good questions for us to ask.

Whitney: Absolutely.

Carrie: Well, is there anything else that we didn’t touch on that you wanted to talk about?

Whitney: I’m just so thankful that you to have me on this podcast, and so thankful to all the viewers.

I hope you like the book.

Carrie: Yeah, definitely. They can get a copy of that on Amazon.

Whitney: Yes, they can go to Amazon. I also have a website that have a couple more resources on whitneypageco.com.

Carrie: Okay. Yeah, we’ll put that in the show notes for people that might be listening in the car or something like that, they can check back and check out your website.

Sometimes people just wanna contact you and say hello after you’ve been on the podcast and say, “I resonated with your story.” So just know that may happen. But I’m so glad that you came on here and shared your story, and that you wrote it down for people. I mean, I think that this is just a really helpful…

I’m trying to think of that saying where something like, one day your testimony is gonna be somebody’s survival guide.

Whitney: Oh, I think I’ve heard that.

Carrie: Yeah. I feel like that’s a lot of what your book is. These are some truths that we need to remember when we’re going through some hard times, and here are some ways you can navigate some of this OCD stuff moving forward.

Whitney: Thank you for saying that. And it is for me too, ’cause honestly, I’m still in the thick of it. I’m not an expert by any means. Still going through it. I’m going back through my book that I wrote that sometimes, I’m not gonna lie, I’m like, “I wrote that?” It’s crazy how our brains can just erase what we’ve learned and what we know, and so it’s a testament for me, too.

Carrie: It’s so funny that Whitney said that about forgetting what she wrote in her book, because I know there have been times where my assistant has pulled stuff out of episodes for social media, and I’m like, “I said that on there?” So that just kinda made me chuckle a little bit. Uh, Whitney, it’s, it’s not just you.

I have that, too. I haven’t talked about this a ton. There will be more to come, but I’ve just been in this messy process of trying to outline and start writing a book that I want to write for the Christian OCD community. And I will say that going through this process, I now just have mad respect for anyone who has put a book out there into the world, because it’s quite the process, and it’s not easy.

If you’d like to get more updates from me regarding what’s happening around the podcast as well as the upcoming book, whenever that is able to be launched out into the world, please subscribe to our weekly newsletter by going to carriebock.com.

Whitney: Until next time, may you be comforted by God’s great love for you.

Christian Faith and OCD

Carrie: is a production of By the Well Counseling. Opinions given by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of myself or By the Well Counseling. This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be a substitute for seeking mental health treatment in your area.

173. Who Are You Really? Discovering Your Real Self with Angela Henry, LCSW

Written by Carrie Bock on May 14, 2025. Posted in OCD, Podcast Episode.

In this episode, Carrie sits down with Angela Henry, LCSW, a therapist in private practice based in Northern Indiana, to discuss her journey into OCD treatment, the integration of faith in therapy, and how Inference-Based Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (ICBT) is transforming lives—especially for Christians struggling with OCD and scrupulosity.

Episode Highlights:

What the “feared possible self” is and how it’s quietly shaping your compulsions
Why OCD recovery isn’t just about symptom relief—it’s about reclaiming your identity
How ICBT helps Christians reconnect with the truth of who God says they are
What makes ICBT a powerful, research-based alternative to ERP—especially for Christians with scrupulosity
Why it’s okay to keep your values—and drop the fear that’s twisting them
Practical ways to integrate faith into the recovery process, even when religious practices have become tangled with fear

Episode Summary:

Have you ever felt like you’re living under a weight that isn’t really you?

In this episode, I sit down with Angela Henry, an OCD specialist and Christian therapist, to explore the powerful concepts behind Inference-Based Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (ICBT)—and how it helps uncover the real self God created you to be.

Angela shares her faith-led journey into OCD treatment and how the concept of the feared possible self resonates deeply with those battling OCD, anxiety, trauma, and scrupulosity.

We also dive into how OCD often hijacks Christian values like excellence or devotion and twists them into compulsions driven by fear.

We talk about what it looks like to drop OCD while keeping your God-given values, how to trust your internal sense data as one way God communicates with us, and why identity work is central to healing—not just symptom relief.

You’ll hear stories from Angela’s clinical experience, a moving mirror-based real-self exercise, and how discovering your real self can be a spiritual breakthrough as much as a therapeutic one.

If OCD has convinced you that you’re a danger, a disappointment, or spiritually defective… if you’re exhausted from trying to earn God’s approval through compulsive prayers or mental checking… this episode is for you.

Related Links and Resources:

angelahenrylcsw.com

Transcript

Carrie: Welcome, Angela. Can you tell us a little bit about yourself?

Angela: Sure. My name is Angela Henry, and I am in private practice in Northern Indiana, and my practice primarily focuses on OCD, anxiety, Tourette syndrome, pans, pandas, and BRBs. As well as a little bit of trauma work. When I first started, I worked primarily with children and adolescents, and now I’ve kind of moved into seeing some adults as well.

Carrie: You can make those shifts and changes when you have your own business, so that’s helpful to know. Tell us, how’d you get into like OCD work? And this is a specialty.

Angela: That’s kind of a funny thing because I kind of feel, and this is kind of where my faith journey can come in too, is I didn’t go searching for OCD.

It actually found me before I went into private practice, I worked in a pediatric multi-specialty clinic and I worked again primarily with pediatrics and teens. And did a lot of autism work, a lot of A DHD, non-medication work counseling and social skill development, different things like that. And then when I went into private practice, I noticed a lot of people started coming to me that had OCD.

And so I started educating myself and went to BTTI, and that’s a whole story how I got to BTTI too. I don’t know if you wanna hear it, but it’s just such a cool thing. I’ll try to nutshell it a little bit, but this email came across that they were giving out some free scholarships to BTTI. It’s the Behavioral Institute for OCD through the I-O-C-D-F.

And I just thought I’m supposed to apply for this scholarship, and I just had a peace in my heart that I was gonna get it. I had no clue. They just wanted more skilled professionals in the Midwest. And so I applied for it and I got into the BTTI and I felt so honored. And at that point, I really didn’t know a whole lot about OCD, but I knew that I needed specialized training.

I had already gone for specialized training for Tourette syndrome through the pediatric specialty clinic that I worked with. And so I had OCD, what am I trying to think of? Training. And then I had the Tourette’s training, and it kind of all comes together where eventually people with OCD were coming to me, but then I learned about pans and pandas.

We’ve had an

Carrie: episode on that before. It’s been a little while, but yeah, it can cause what looks like sudden OCD symptoms.

Angela: I felt like God was really equipping me all this journey of having specialized training to treat Tourette’s, and then the specialized training to treat OCD and then again working with peds and all the specialties that come with that.

It just formed a really nice package for me to be able to treat a lot of these kiddos. Not just with OCD, but again with ticks and the Pans Pandas presentation. Long story short, I didn’t go searching for OCD. It came knocking at my door, and so I knew I needed to get extra help to know how to treat these people in my area.

There’s not a lot of people who treat OCD either. There’s just maybe almost less than a handful.

Carrie: That definitely makes sense then, and I think falls in line with what I hear from a lot of people in different parts of the US is it can be hard for them to find specialized therapists. But today we’re having a conversation about ICBT and this sense of the feared possible self versus the real self and how that connects to Christianity.

So how long have you been using ICBT in your practice?

Angela: Well, I was one of those early people that adapted it. And one of the early Friday people when there was just a handful of us on the screen talking about this new modality and how can we use it. And interestingly, as I was learning and becoming more specialized in OCD and going through the BTTI and learning how to treat OCD is when I actually started learning about ICVT too.

I felt like I was really going through a doctorate in OCD learning, ERP learning, ICBT. The original thing I think that happened was I’m A-E-M-D-R certified therapist as well, and I think I had made some comments maybe in some different Facebook groups on EMDR, and at that point it wasn’t well received.

It’s still

Carrie: not in some circles depending on who you talk to.

Angela: Right. And I remember Bronwyn and I didn’t know who she was at all reaching out to me and talking just briefly through text about her experience as well. I can’t remember if it was her that told me about ICBT because we came in to the Facebook group around like I think a week apart or so.

Or maybe it was Carl. I can’t remember who it was, but I reached out to Carl, and Carl sent me a special invite because you had to go to the Facebook group through a special invitation.

Carrie: It wasn’t just open to any clinicians or anything like that, right?

Angela: Yeah. So I joined that group and it just seemed to make a lot of sense to me.

The more it made sense, the more I wanted to invest in really consuming it and trying to understand and make it accessible to the clients that I was serving too.

Carrie: Yeah, and I think there is a ease in from, if you’re coming from the EMDR world, and we’re talking about kind of getting down to the root of the trauma and trying to clear out earlier traumas that are contributing to present anxieties and other symptomologies that people are experiencing.

For me, I was seeing a lot of people with anxiety and I started to apply some of the things that I was doing with OCD in terms of EMDR and then had some specialty E-M-D-R-O-C-D trainings. But before I knew what the feared possible self was, that was what I was going after with EMDR. I just didn’t have the language for it.

I didn’t know, but I would say there’s something underneath all of these. Symptoms and people’s lack of confidence to be able to engage in treatment or deal with the symptomology that they were experiencing. And these were, I would say, lighter cases of people suffering from OCD. I wasn’t working at that time with people that had more severe.

Symptomology like I am now. But I think that sometimes there’s more than one way to get at what you’re working on in terms therapeutically. But I like that ICBT has definitely way more research around it than EMDR. With OCD, I think that they need a little bit more kind of beef up in that department, but this is a great opportunity and option for people who are looking for evidence-based research treatment practices.

For OCD,

Angela: it pairs nicely. With my belief system, with my faith, and as you know, we can’t just talk about our faith in sessions unless the client brings it up first, but it’s something that I feel like I can use my faith and belief in a way that really resonates with ICBT and how I view people the world.

In terms of the feared self, it’s kind of funny because I’ve gotten a chance to do some presentations with some different colleagues, and it seems like I’m typically asked to do either the feared self or the real self, and I love that they feel confident with me doing those pieces because. Out of ICBT.

I mean, there’s a lot of great things that I love about ICBT, but that feared possible self and the real self just really hit it home. We know that there’s a difference between the feared possible self and there’s a vulnerable self, which all of us hold. And then there’s the feared possible self, which is specific to OCD.

Carrie: How do you define the feared possible self to clients?

Angela: So the feared possible self, how I define that is. It’s this feared possibility of who you might become if you’re not following the directions of OCD and the compulsions that it’s asking you to do. It’s this feared version of yourself that OCD makes you feel might be possible.

I. So, of course people with OCD are going to want to do those compulsions because they would never wanna be that version that OCD makes up about who they could become or who they might be. And I think that all of us have a piece of that in the overarching, what did we call it? Yeah, vulnerable.

Absolutely. We humans are vulnerable to so many different things. I think that’s one of Satan’s tricks is that if he can have us question ourself, have us look at ourself and take who we really are, which is our real self, who is in my belief system, who God made us to be, who we’re supposed to be walking in light of who God made us.

But if Satan can have us look at those things and tweak it. And send it off one or two degrees, and then we are living in this feared, possible version of ourself.

Carrie: Yeah. It’s like you end up doubting your true identity Absolutely. Is what you’re saying. Yeah.

Angela: And then we end up walking in such a different path than what we were meant to be created for.

You might have been supposed to be living in Paris or walking in light of one version of yourself, but then you end up way off course and living in Africa because he likes to take things and just move it off a few degrees, and then it disrupts our course and how we were meant to be living.

Carrie: I think that’s a beautiful thing about OCD treatment is it can lead you back towards a authentic practice of your faith because you’re not living in that state of intense fear anymore.

I was thinking about like there’s no fear in love. So if we have our identity and the love of God that how God sees us, then we’re not gonna be stuck in that place of fear. And I think that’s the goal for Christians who are struggling with OCD. Totally agree. That’s a beautiful way to say that. There’s an opposition to this feared self of who?

That’s the lie You buy the lie that OCD cells of, Hey, if you just do these things, then you’ll be considered a careful person versus a careless person or. You’ll be a devoted follower versus someone who doesn’t really care about their faith, and then you’re engaging in all of these extra maybe religious compulsions, or you’re doing extra checking to not be careless.

Angela: And especially when it comes to scrupulosity. You can look at that and you can say, either I’m at a moral crossroads and I don’t know what I believe anymore. Or it’s OCD because we have this knowing, and I think in ICBT when we’re talking about direct evidence and we’re talking about our internal sense information, our internal desires and intentions.

Yeah, that’s huge. That to me, that’s just one way that God speaks to us. He’s always speaking to us. He’s always giving us information. He gives us information through our five senses. He gives us information through our internal desires and intentions, and again, the real authentic self, who we really are, who he created us to be.

OCD wants to diminish that. It wants to have us not be in line with the things that we know, and then we end up going against the things that we know and how God is speaking to us and we move in a different direction because that feared possible self seems so real and so true. Yeah. And so that can be so scary.

OCD definitely. It’s a doubting disorder. It’s a distrust of self disorder and instead of trusting in who we know we are. Our real authentic self. I think sometimes we outsource. We outsource our trust and we put the trust in compulsions to keep us safe. And it’s really like needing to lasso that trust back and bring it back to ourself where it was really meant to be all along.

’cause God gives that to us. Yeah,

Carrie: it’s like putting your trust in God and what he’s shown you. Like in terms of the sense data and the internal sense data, instead of putting it in, I’m gonna take control. I’m gonna take the reins, I’m gonna fix this and make it so that I don’t ever become that feared self.

I’ve noticed it’s really hard, this concept of perfectionism. I. Within Christianity, there can be this fine line where we’re trying super hard to be someone that we believe God is going to accept, versus the reverse of that is saying, I’m already accepted. I’m already fully loved what Jesus died for me, that has made the difference and now I can live out of that.

It’s a complete transverse of the way a lot of people are looking at things.

Angela: I love that you’re bringing that up, Carrie, because I remember talking about this in consultation with Dr. Artema. It was a case with ringworm, but how people can keep their desire for excellence, to do things excellently, to do things to the best of their ability.

Those are values. Values that God finds pleasing. He wants us to do anything that we do. He wants us to do the best that we can so that it gives him glory. But then OCD takes a hold of that and rearranges it, and it’s off kilter again. It’s changed the degrees, so it was meant to be here, but then it ends up someplace else when OCD kind of taps the shoulder of it.

I remember Dr. Artemis saying, you can keep your values. That’s okay. You can keep your values and you can drop OCD.

Carrie: That’s great. I think that’s really good for a lot of people to hear.

Angela: They’re mutually exclusive, right? Right. They’re not the same. They’re very different. So you can keep your values of wanting to do things with excellence or doing things well and drop the OCD.

That’s really good.

Carrie: At some level, there has to be this acceptance or understanding that we’re not perfect and we’re not going to get it perfectly, and the acceptance that part of that real self as a Christian is a forgiven self and a self that is in process not done yet. And continuing to go and like, I’m gonna mess it up and I’m going to have to ask for forgiveness, and that’s okay.

That’s part of a healthy process. Let’s talk a little bit about like kind of when you’re helping people get in touch with their real self. A lot of times what clients will tell us is, well, but I’m not that way all the time, or I don’t know if I can really identify with what these activities are showing me.

Talk to us a little bit about that. It’s kind of maybe hard for people to accept their real self sometimes.

Angela: When I spoke at, I think it was I-O-C-D-F last year, and Amanda Petrich and I were doing feared self and Real Self, and at that point I was doing the real self portion, and this was a really powerful visual I think for this.

I had sticky notes and I had a handheld mirror that she was holding and I was asking her questions about her real self. I was asking her. Questions like when you cry at a movie, what is the thing that’s making you ugly cry? Because that shows your heart. If you were standing at your funeral and people were standing around, you know, the video that was playing, and they were saying, oh my gosh, Amanda, she was so great, what would you be hearing?

What would they be saying about you? And as she was answering these questions, she was writing them on sticky notes. She was putting them on the mirror that she was holding, and at this point she was actually wrapped in toilet paper to visualize the feared possible self keeping you in bondage because it’s keeping you away from the life that you were supposed to live.

So she’s wrapped in toilet paper and she’s answering these questions and we’re putting it on the mirror and asking her a question. I remember she got tearful. I can’t remember exactly how I said it, but let’s say you’re gone someday and your kids are remembering you, and what kind of values did you instill?

What did you model for them? And she kind of stopped for a second. She’s like, I think I’m gonna cry. And it actually makes me tear up in this moment because I think. There’s capital T. Truth. Yeah. Little T truth is what I consider kind of Satan kind of masquerading is what would be capital T truth, but capital T, truth is wherever it is, right?

Can be on a stage at I-O-C-D-F talking about the real self. She kind of choked up for a second. She said, I think I’m gonna cry. But I think those tears were because she was seeing and experiencing and taking in through God, whispering to her who she really is, her real self. And when we see that it is a beautiful moment, and it could be a reason for tears, right?

Yeah. We put that on her mirror and then we started to take off the toilet paper. We started to take off the bondage of the feared possible self, and what you’re left with when you do that is your real self, your real authentic self. She could see then on the mirror, face to face, it was reflected back at her.

And I said to her, what do you see now when you look in the mirror? And she saw all those truths, all those capital T truths about who she really is looking back at her. That’s awesome. And I see me, and that’s kind of one of those mic drop moments.

Carrie: Yeah, and I just don’t feel like the identity work is something that I’ve seen come out of exposure and response prevention.

And I could be wrong on that and maybe there are other people who would disagree with me or see that, but something that transformative where people are able to walk away and say like, I have a greater sense of who I am, who God has created me to be. I just haven’t seen that happen with another form of therapy for OCD.

Angela: Exposure and response prevention. I think when they’re making new associations between the once feared thing and then they’re no longer held in bondage of that to walk in freedom, I think that’s one way that they can walk in their real self. I just don’t think, and that’s a beautiful thing because then they’re walking in freedom.

Carrie: They’ve moved towards their values because they’re not engaging in the compulsions.

Angela: But I don’t think ERP spells it out like ICBT does. Yeah, self vulnerable, self and authentic self. Mm-hmm. And I think Icbt does an incredibly beautiful job of spelling that out.

Carrie: The reality is you look at people’s lives who are suffering immensely from OCD, maybe they’re ruminating for hours a day, or they’re taking two hours to wash the dishes at night.

They’re getting up at their morning bathroom routine is taking them two to three hours. A lot of times what I will say to them, I might even ask them or explore, if you weren’t spending this much time on this, they’ve been doing it maybe for a long, long time, for years. If you weren’t spending two hours on the dishes, what would it look like for you to get that time back?

What would you do with that time? Because that’s an identity issue. I’d say, well, I’d spend that time with my husband, or I’d spend that time with my kids. Awesome. That’s great. That’s who you really are and where you really want to be. And so it can be hard when you had so much identity surrounding OCD, like, well, this is just who I am and this is what I do.

I have a whole process for. Whenever I have to take out the garbage, for example. I mean, it gets really sucked into people’s identities in all of these tiny little ways in their day-to-day life that when they’re able to break free from that and move towards their values, it’s just amazing to see the transformation process that people have had.

Angela: I know ICBT has a special word for that called the void. That discomfort that we experience when we’re no longer doing the compulsions because we do have so much more time to do the things that are value driven. And I kind of see it as a coming back alive to oneself, kind of like we talked about when we’re outsourcing trust in self to compulsions.

Once brought that back and we might experience a void of all the time that used to be taken by those compulsions and we can come back alive to ourself and do the things that bring us joy.

Carrie: That’s great. And be able to, for people who are dealing with scrupulosity to. Find an authentic connection with God and be able to engage in their spiritual practices in a really healthy way instead of it being compulsive.

Angela: I was actually thinking about that earlier when you were talking about something different, but. I think it’s when we were talking about how you can keep your values, but drop the ooc D let’s say we’re compulsively praying. Yeah. That’s not how we praying. Because you have a desire to, it’s out of fear. So now we’re freed.

To do things in a way that’s pleasing and actually honoring to God instead of compulsory.

Carrie: I’m curious for you, since you have a trauma background, for those listeners that have experienced traumatic events or maybe things in their family that they’ve just had a really hard time recovering from or shaking in their adult life, how do you feel like that fits with what we’re talking about?

Angela: I can say, and we might intersect a little bit of EMDR. Is that okay? Yeah. Uhhuh, yeah, sure. In EMDR, and this might be more like the vulnerable self theme. Mm-hmm. Kind mixing in with EMDR, but when we talk about those traumatic events. I think that those traumatic events can happen. And then I kind of think of that as at some place in your life, there was some fertile soil for seeds to be sown that grew into this negative core belief.

And I would segue that and kind of match that with the vulnerable self theme, not the feared possible self, but the one that everybody has. And at that point, as those seeds were sown through a traumatic event, I visualize that as being kind of like Jack and the beam stock. And that might kind of sound weird, but those seeds are thrown and then the beanstalk starts to grow.

And inside that is that negative core belief that’s starting to grow. That’s the bean stalk. Mm-hmm. That’s the vulnerable self. And as further events happen, it kind of feeds back into this growing beanstalk. It becomes more and more believable, this negative core belief or this vulnerable self theme with EMDR.

We go back into those events and we update the system with what I call capital T truth. And in OCD we’re going into a feared possible self, but we’re updating the system and we’re taking out the feared possible self, and we’re installing, if you will, the positive core belief or who we really are, that real authentic self.

When we do that, we can pull out that beanstalk by its root and do away with it. What was a little T truth masquerading around as Capital T Truth. Keeping us in bondage away from who we really are and how we were really meant to live.

Carrie: I think that those therapies in my practice integrate really well together for people that definitely have some significant trauma that they feel like has contributed to the OCD.

Not necessarily, I’m not saying cause, but through gasoline on the fire of the OCD. Absolutely. It really has been helpful and beneficial. Thanks for sharing all of this. It’s been a joy to meet you and get to hang out with some of the ICBT people and learn from the just very generously giving and community.

That’s a wealth of information.

Angela: Thanks so much for having me. I really appreciate being here and talking to things and sharing.

149. Writing an Alternative Story to OCD’s Default Narrative with ICBT

Written by Carrie Bock on November 10, 2024. Posted in OCD, Podcast Episode.

In this episode, Carrie gives you an exclusive sneak peek into the upcoming Christians Learning ICBT live training launching in January. She takes you behind the scenes as she explores the process of writing alternative stories, sharing a personal experience that illustrates how she crafted an obsessional narrative and transformed it into a healthier perspective.

Episode Highlights:

How to rewrite your obsessional stories by crafting alternative narratives that empower you to see situations from a different perspective.

Practical tools to stay grounded in reality and navigate the uncertainty that OCD often magnifies.

Examples of stories including Carrie’s personal experience with a car accident and how she used alternative story to reshape OCD’s narrative.

A sneak peek into the ICBT (Integrative Cognitive Behavioral Therapy) training modules, including a breakdown of how they can help you or someone you know struggling with OCD from a Christian perspective.

Episode Summary:

Are you tired of battling OCD? Maybe you’ve tried exposure therapy or sought help from a Christian counselor who didn’t fully understand your struggles. If that’s you, know that I’m here to support you.

I’m thrilled to announce that starting in January, I’ll be teaching through the 12 modules of ICBT, diving into one module each week until the end of March. Can’t make the live sessions? Don’t worry! Everything will be recorded and available in an online course. If you’re even slightly interested, join the waiting list at carriebock.com/ocd.

Now, let’s talk about alternative stories. Often, the narratives we tell ourselves about our obsessions can become our default. The more we dwell on them, the more ingrained they become. But remember, your brain can change! We can rewire those patterns and explore new possibilities instead of just following the old, anxiety-ridden trails.

I’ll be sharing my own obsessional story related to a car accident Steve and I had shortly after buying a new car. While the actual event is true, my initial thoughts were full of obsessional doubts. I questioned whether I was being greedy for buying the car or if it was a sign from God. But after reflecting, I realized these thoughts were rooted in anxiety rather than reality. My faith reminds me that sometimes things happen for reasons we might not understand right away.

Through this training, we’ll learn to identify and replace those obsessional stories with healthier narratives. It’s important to understand that we’re not arguing with OCD but rather acknowledging the uncertainties in life and leaning into our faith.

I’d love for you to join us on this journey of healing and discovery. Let’s create new stories that lead us to peace and freedom from OCD. Sign up for the waitlist today!

Explore Related Episodes:

148. Your Obsessional Story: Christians Learning ICBT coming Jan 2025!

133. Looking for an Alternative to ERP? Find out if ICBT is Right for You

Transcript

Episode 149. Last week, I gave you a behind the scenes sneak peek into my self teaching Module 3 for our group this fall, where I taught all 12 modules of ICBT. This is happening again in January, and I want you to get on board. But today, we’re talking about Module 9, which is writing an alternative story to OCD. I can’t wait for you to hear a snippet of this training.

Hello and welcome to Christian Faith and OCD with Carrie Bock. I’m a Christ follower, wife and mother, licensed professional counselor who helps Christians struggling with OCD get to a deeper level of healing. When I couldn’t find resources for my clients with OCD, God called me to bring this podcast to you.

With practical tools for developing greater peace, we’re here to bust through the shame and stigma surrounding struggling with OCD as a Christian, sharing hopeful stories of healing and helping you replace uncertainty with faith. I’m here to help you let go of the past and future to walk in the present abundant life God has for you.

So let’s dive right in to today’s episode. Brothers and sisters in Christ, OCD warriors. Are you sick and tired of fighting with OCD? Have you tried exposure therapy or tried finding counseling from a Christian perspective and just have come up short? I know so many people have told me that they have a Christian counselor, but that person doesn’t know about OCD or they’ve gone to OCD counseling and something just didn’t feel right because the person didn’t understand their faith.

I want you to know that I’m here for you, and that’s why I’m excited to announce that in January, we’re going to be teaching through the 12 modules of ICBT. We’ve talked about ICBT in more depth in episode 119 and episode 133. I will be teaching one module per week from mid January to the end of March.

If you can’t make the live trainings, everything’s recorded and put in an online course platform for you to access. If you think you might even slightly be interested, or you’re interested in being interested in finding out more information. Please join our waiting list at kerrybach. com slash OCD. About three fourths of the way down the page, there’s an option for you to put in your name and email address.

The obsessional story does not have to be your default narrative, and you can consider an alternative story. These stories that you’ve been telling yourself have been rolling around in your brain, and like, the more that we focus on them, like, the more that they’ve grown, the more that they’ve solidified, the more that they’ve become a automatic, right?

Your brain can fire very quickly, like with all those neurons kind of wired together related to your OCD. And so much of this process has been slowing down your thought process, really slowing things down to get into like, what is the obsessional story. And so now what we’re trying to do really is rewire that pattern.

And recognize, like, okay, my brain’s default is to go down trail A. And I’m starting to retrain it to go, well, I could go down trail A, and I know where that’s going to lead. That’s going to lead to more compulsions. That’s going to lead to more anxiety. That’s going to lead to being stuck. Or I could, like, go down trail B or C, even.

And recognize, like, maybe this story that I’ve been telling myself isn’t valid. And maybe there’s an alternative story. You’re drawn in with this really believable story. It’s sensational and OCD is causing you to fear you’re going to become this version. You don’t want to be. I don’t want to be that person.

So then I do these compulsions and that obsessional doubt. It comes from the imagination and that makes it irrelevant. Not actually based on sense data of what’s happening right now. And once you cross over into that OCD bubble, remember our little bridge, it’s difficult to get out. It doesn’t feel good in there, but it doesn’t feel good outside of there, and kind of the more like you get sucked in further and further, the harder it is to get out of there.

But we can use that sensory information in the here and now to stay grounded in reality, stay on that, that different side of the bridge or to get out of the OCD bubble. Important things that we need to know that the alternative story is not the following. We’re not trying to argue with your OCD. We’re not trying to say things like, Oh, well, you know, it doesn’t look like I’m going to die because I went to the doctor last week and I got a clean bill of health and they said all my any health conditions are like managed in a healthy way, blah, blah, blah.

We’re not trying to argue back with it. It’s not to be used as a compulsion, so it’s not like, Oh, okay, OCD is telling me this story, and I’m repeating, like, compulsively the alternative story in my head. Not what we want to do there, either. It’s not really a true versus a false story, because sometimes there are uncertainties of life that we have to accept.

We don’t know, sometimes. It’s not a, oh, this is the right story and the OCD is the wrong story, or this is, like, the true narrative and the OCD is completely, like, false. We know OCD, like, the obsessional doubt, right, is based in the imagination. And so in that sense, the obsessional doubt is false and is not relevant.

Here’s what we are trying to do with the obsessional story. We’re trying to dislodge it as a default narrative, just like I was talking about before, where it’s the thing that kind of has made the loop, it’s made the rounds in the brain and like it’s become that well worn neural pathway. So we’re trying to introduce a different neural pathway into the brain so that we can say, You know, like it could be this over here.

What do we think about that? And if we’re talking about possibilities, you know, we also have to talk about if we’re going to say that that’s a possibility, then we have to open up our minds and our ideas to other potential possibilities. It’s a possibility that I could get in a car accident on the way home.

It’s also possible that I could have a normal, everyday life, you know, drive home that happens on a regular basis. You know, takes me about 15 minutes to get home. Could be just completely normal. It could be that there’s an accident on the interstate and it takes me an hour to get home. Like, there’s many different possibilities here.

When you’re writing your alternative story, as you’re going through this process, it’s a tangible OCD thing, it might feel a little bit easier to do that one, but if it feels like, okay, it’s something spiritual, or it’s something more existential, it might be, if you can write like a potentially different alternative of that story, if there’s multiple alternatives, that might be a good process for you.

For this next snippet of the training, I’m going to be going through an obsessional story that I wrote about a car accident that Steve and I got into. You may have noticed last week that when we write obsessional stories, they have reasons for the obsessional doubt. There’s a variety of those in ICBT.

rules, hearsay, personal experience, and all the way down to it’s possible, which is a pretty much catch all category because OCD tells you that anything is possible. We then spend some time examining the obsessional story and then going into the alternative story. Here’s my story about the car accident.

This first part of the story is completely true, and I wrote an obsessional piece about the next part of the story. Steve and I received some money from my parents passing away, and after some consideration, we decided to buy a newer used car. After two years of squeezing a walker, stroller, and other things into a sedan, we decided to look at a Honda CR V.

Everything went smoothly through the selection and buying process until we went out, went to pull out of the dealership lot. A man driving a truck was in a hurry. He thought I had pulled off when I had only slowly moved up to survey the traffic. He accelerated and hit us in the back. This is a now kind of a funny story about being hit on the way out of the dealership, which who does that happen to except for my crazy life.

All right. Here’s my potential obsessional story related to the accident. This part is made up. Surely, this is a sign from God that I was not supposed to buy this vehicle. Maybe I was being greedy in doing so. What if this was a sin, or God is angry at me, or punishing me in some way? There’s a whole lot of things that we could potentially break down there, but I’m going to call that the obsessional doubt.

My treasure should be in heaven according to the Bible rules. I could have spent this money on feeding starving children in Africa. That is a fact. I watched this YouTube video warning against greed and how the wrath of God is going to come on down to Americans. That’s completely made up, but we’ll call that hearsay.

And I shouldn’t have been greedy last week when I ate that piece of pie instead of offering it to my husband. Personal experience, I’m going to repeatedly repent and confess the sin of buying the car and then ruminate about whether I should sell it or not as a sign of true repentance. That’s the compulsions there.

We had gone through the potential obsessional story. These were some things that came out of it. Like felt positive about buying the car. Maybe this was some kind of like vulnerable self, like maybe it was my fault, distrust, a connection with God. And so this was what we had originally wrote, like, something bad happened.

I don’t have any evidence in the present to support this obsessional doubt that I’m a greedy person who shouldn’t have bought this car. I don’t have any spiritual sense data to support that God is upset with me. Like, I’m not sensing anything from the Holy Spirit. In fact, this decision was made prayerfully and carefully.

My recent personal experience of being greedy and the YouTube video is irrelevant to this present moment experience with the car. This is actually this last paragraph here that I’m going to share with you. The next paragraph is actually something, my genuine feelings about the car accident. And. It’s interesting because it’s very vague of like, why does God allow certain things to happen in our life?

Like, I don’t really know, you know, sometimes we don’t always have a clear answer. Sometimes we have the answer when we look backwards like, oh, like, it makes sense that I went through this because then I met that person or like, yeah, why God led me here and then here makes sense. But some things don’t always make sense like that, or we can’t always see it at the time.

I got into a car accident, I’m not really sure why God allowed it to happen right after I bought the car. I wonder if the accident was a wake up call to the guy driving the truck to be more careful. He saw our car seat and recognized that our daughter could have been in the car. This seemed to bother him.

We’re very thankful to God that no one was hurt. In faith, my daughter was not in the car. Maybe it was a reminder to me that my family is much more important than things. Maybe it was an opportunity to show grace to the other driver instead of freaking out on him as he expected us to do. I understand that i’m not going to have all the answers and this gives me the opportunity to trust god in face day by day.

And obviously, you know, this was not a huge issue. Everything got fixed, you know resolved and it’s fine And we didn’t have to pay for it because it wasn’t our fault. But you know when we go through situations in life Um, you may have been through something a lot bigger where you might be questioning like some of these things like why Is God allowing this to happen or you could even be having this thought process maybe about your OCD?

You want to think through like going back to that acceptance piece that we were talking about earlier The piece that I’m having to accept in the uncertainty is I’m not going to have all the answers or I’m not going to understand everything that happens in my life. And that may be something in a mindful space that’s really hard to sit with.

Just like if you’re having an obsession about death, it may be really hard to sit with not knowing when that’s coming. Or if you’re having an obsession about Something spiritual and maybe there are some things that people get stuck on spiritually start obsessing about like Calvinism versus Arminianism is one of them that people can get really stuck on or how do we explain some of these things that happened in the Old Testament where the Israelites were told to wipe other people out?

Like how do we reconcile with our faith and who God is? When you look at all those things, like, there has to be this level of acceptance of faith, and that faith, I like to say, faith requires faith. So, it means that there is some element of trusting God outside of yourself, and that you’re not going to have all of the answers, or understand everything.

I wanted you to hear the connection between the obsessional story, and the alternative story. However, in ICBT, these two are taught weeks apart as the obsessional story is module three and the alternative narrative is module nine. In between, we’re learning a lot more information about how to stay grounded in reality instead of moving towards the imaginary outcomes that OCD is telling you will happen.

I would love, love, love for you to come and join us. There is going to be a huge Black Friday sale on these trainings happening in January from mid January through the end of March. Please go to karybach. com slash OCD to get on the waiting list and you’ll receive all the information about ICBT, these trainings, and the sale.

Until next time, may you be comforted by God’s great love for you. Were you blessed by today’s episode? If so, I’d really appreciate it if you would go over to your iTunes account or Apple Podcasts app on your computer if you’re an Android person and leave us a review. This really helps other Christians who are struggling with OCD be able to find our show.

Christian Faith and OCD is a production of By The Well Counseling. This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be a substitute for seeking mental health treatment in your area.

140. Help! I Don’t Feel Close to God

Written by Carrie Bock on September 11, 2024. Posted in OCD, Podcast Episode.

In this episode, Carrie explores the feelings of spiritual distance and how to navigate those times when you don’t feel close to God.

Episode Highlights:

Understanding the connection between OCD and feelings of spiritual distance.
Insights from Elijah’s story and how it relates to modern struggles with faith.
Practical steps for reconnecting with God during times of doubt and anxiety.
Encouragement and biblical wisdom for Christians dealing with OCD and spiritual uncertainty.

Episode Summary:

Welcome to Christian Faith and OCD! I’m Carrie Bock, a Christ follower and licensed professional counselor committed to helping Christians struggling with OCD find healing and peace.

Today, we’re diving into those difficult seasons when you don’t feel close to God—when life feels chaotic, and you’re left questioning His presence in your struggles. Many of us, especially those battling OCD, have been there, wondering if our faith is faltering because we don’t feel that initial “on fire” connection with God anymore.

I discuss how sin can create a sense of distance between us and God—not in our standing with Him, but in our relational closeness. Yet, through confession and repentance, we can restore that intimacy. The story of Elijah, who, after a significant victory, found himself in despair and needed God’s gentle care, serves as a powerful reminder of how God meets us in our lowest moments.

I also share some personal reflections on times when I believed lies during difficult seasons—whether it was thinking my life was over after a divorce or feeling the deep sense of loss after my father’s passing. In each of these moments, God gently reminded me that He sees the bigger picture, even when I can’t. These experiences have taught me that our feelings, no matter how strong, don’t define our faith.

If you’re struggling today, I hope this episode brings you comfort and reminds you that God is with you, even in your confusion and pain. You’re not alone, and your current feelings don’t determine your relationship with God.

For more resources and to stay connected, visit my website at carriebock.com.

More Episodes to Listen To:

2. Unanswered Prayers for Healing with Pastor Troy Powell

Transcript

What do you do when you don’t feel close to God? Maybe you just feel like you’re praying and your prayers are bouncing off the ceiling. We’re going to look at one character from the Bible and try to apply some biblical principles to our own lives when we feel this way.

Hello, and welcome to Christian Faith and OCD with Carrie Bock. I’m a Christ follower, wife and mother. licensed professional counselor who helps Christians struggling with OCD get to a deeper level of healing. When I couldn’t find resources for my clients with OCD, God called me to bring this podcast to you with practical tools for developing greater peace.

We’re here to bust through the shame and stigma surrounding struggling with OCD as a Christian, sharing hopeful stories of healing and helping you replace uncertainty with faith. I’m here to help you let go of the past and future to walk in the present abundant life God has for you. So let’s dive right into today’s episode.

If you have not checked out our new website, carriebock.com, I am so So proud of this thing. It has been such a big process combining my By the Well counseling website and the podcasting website into one after we went through this rebrand from Hope for Anxiety to OCD into Christian Faith and OCD. For those of you who maybe haven’t been around that while or are just now tuning in, that’s where you can find all things about my counseling, the Christian Faith and OCD podcast.

Click on the podcast page for more information. You can also leave comments there and let me know that you’ve been listening and what you think about the show. Any guest suggestions or topics you want me to cover. I love to hear from you guys. One of my favorite things. I’ve definitely had times like this in my life, I don’t know if you’ve had times like this in your life, and if you’ve been a Christian for any length of time, you probably have.

You probably have said, I’m going through a season and I just don’t feel close to God right now. I don’t know where he is, I don’t know what he’s doing, everything seems chaotic or a mess. Maybe you’re feeling lost, going through a grief and loss process. So if you’re feeling that way right now, I just want you to know you’re not alone.

Anybody that’s been a Christian for a while has probably experienced this. And also sometimes we just feel this in general in our long term relationships, right? OCD is going to use that as evidence, like, oh, well, you’re not a Christian because you don’t feel close to God, or you don’t feel connected to Him, or you don’t feel the same way you did when you became a Christian.

This is something I hear from a lot of Christians who struggle with OCD. Well, I don’t feel as on fire. As I did when I first became a Christian. Well, that’s an emotional high time in your life. Just like when you get married, that’s an emotional high time in your life. You ask anyone who’s been married for five years, do you feel the same exact way that you did on your wedding?

They’re going to tell you, no, I mean, your love grows and it shifts and changes and that’s not always a negative thing. Sometimes that can be a really positive thing. We may not get the butterflies in our stomach over our spouse. But we can be very committed and devoted and caring and show concern for them.

So hopefully that parallel helps give you a little bit more of a glimpse or make sense to you that our feelings can change over time. That doesn’t mean that they’ve gone away or have dulled or that we don’t really love God anymore because we don’t feel the same way that we did before. I’m going to say just a short piece about sin, but this is not the main focus of this particular podcast in general.

We know that sin separates us from God in a relational sense, not in a positional sense. So you can still sin and you’re still going to be God’s child. You’re still going to be in the family. Now, OCD may tell you otherwise, OCD may say, Oh, well, because you messed up over here, God doesn’t love you, you failed, you’re going to hell, that type of scenario.

That’s not the case. What sin does is it does create a level of separation, just like if you hurt someone’s feelings like family member or friend, there’s going to be some relational distance possibly between you and that person until you come back together, reconcile, talk it out, forgiveness, and so forth.

This is how it is in our relationship with God. Sin separates us from Him. Isaiah 59 1 says, Behold, the Lord’s hand is not shortened that it cannot save, or his ear dull that it cannot hear, but your iniquities, that’s sin, have made a separation between you and your God, and your sins have hidden his face from you so that he does not hear.

We also know that 1 John 1, 9 tells us that if we confess our sin, He’s faithful and just to forgive our sin and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. So just as sin has that ability to separate us from God in a relational sense, that confession of sin brings us back into right relationship with God.

Today, I want to talk to you more about those times where you’re in the midst of your sanctification process. You’re doing your best to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, as it talks about in Philippians 2. 12. You don’t feel like God is there. Maybe it’s a confusing time in your life, maybe you’ve been going through suffering.

Why is God allowing this situation? You might be really struggling with your OCD right now. Like, why in the world is God allowing me to go through this process right now? Why is he allowing this to torment me? And sometimes in life situations, we understand things better on the other side of the suffering or on the other side of the situation.

But sometimes we don’t. Sometimes there are things that we may never understand until we get to heaven. And that’s okay. We’ve got to live in that wrestling. Paul talks about, we look through the glass dimly, but one day we’re going to see face to face. We’re not going to understand everything from our position here on earth.

But how do we get through these situations where we don’t feel close to God? We don’t know where he is and what he’s doing. We’ve We pray, but it feels empty, or our spiritual practices, we’re just going through the motions. I want to talk to you about Elijah, who’s an Old Testament hero of our faith, and how he made it through a similar situation.

So Elijah was a prophet during a time where Israel had a wicked king and queen. And his story starts out in 1st Kings 17, if you want to look that up later. God calls Elijah to prophesy about a drought that’s going to come on the land. And this really makes Ahab and Jezebel, that wicked king and queen, quite mad.

He ends up having a showdown in 1st Kings 18, amazing chapter. with the prophets of Baal to prove to Israel that God’s real and this false god that you’ve been serving, Baal, he’s fake. He’s not real. God prevails, sends down fire from heaven on the altar, and Elijah goes and slaughters the false prophets.

Jezebel’s not happy about the prophets of Baal being slaughtered, because remember, she’s not following Israel’s god, she’s following these false gods. So she threatens to kill Elijah, and Elijah ends up fleeing for his life. So in 1 Kings 19. 4 it says, But he himself went on a day’s journey into the wilderness, and came and sat down under a broom tree.

And he asked that he might die, saying, It is enough now, O Lord, take away my life, for I am no better than my father’s. He was serving God, but he felt like he couldn’t go on, and so if you’ve ever had a time where you felt like you couldn’t make it anymore, I mean we did an episode a while back on suicide, there were people that struggled with this in the Bible, there were people that cursed the day of their birth.

I think Jeremiah did that. I know Job cursed the day of his birth. I mean, look at this. The people in the Bible were just like us. They had struggles. They had human emotions. We need to stop acting like they didn’t have struggles, or they were somehow superhuman people. They were wrestling with some of the same stuff that we’re wrestling with today.

It’s how we handle it and what we do and how we bring it to God. So interestingly, here’s how God handles it. Elijah ate and drank and slept, basically was fed by an angel in the wilderness, which shows us that God cares about our physical needs. And that our physical needs are connected to our emotional experience.

If Elijah was eating, drinking, and sleeping, and he goes through a process in verses five through eight, and this happens about three times, to me that says that there was something in his physical body that was lacking. He needed physical nourishment, he needed water, he needed food, and he needed sleep.

Some of y’all would be feeling a whole lot better if you could just get some sleep. I have been sleep deprived. I know what that feels like. It’s horrible. I know what it feels like not to be able to fall asleep because you got emotional stuff going on. It’s not fun. And I also know that when I’ve been relieved at points, that when I’ve been able to get that sleep, it has impacted my mood profoundly.

So keep that in mind as well. Going down to verses 9 14, God corrects Elijah’s thinking. This is the next piece. So he meets his physical needs, and then he corrects his thinking. And the word of the Lord came to him, What are you doing here, Elijah? He replied, I have been very zealous for the Lord God Almighty.

The Israelites have rejected your covenant, torn down your altars, and put your prophets to death with the sword, and I am the only one left, and now they are trying to kill me too. Elijah says, I’m the only one left God, I’m the only one here serving you, they’ve killed everybody else, and the people that are still around are the people that are not following you, and they’re killing the people that are trying to follow you.

And interestingly, down in verse 18, God says, Yet I reserve seven thousand in Israel, all whose knees have not bowed down to Baal, and whose mouths have not kissed him. So God says, Elijah, you’re wrong. You’re stuck on this thought that you were the alone in serving me, that you have worked so hard and you’ve done all the things I’ve asked you to do, and now it’s over.

But Elijah’s mission was not over yet. So my question is, are you thinking something right now that’s not true? Are you stuck in a lie? I wrote down just a few times in my life where I believed a lie. I’m sure there are more than these. But these were times where I was really low and I was convinced during these times that something was true when it wasn’t.

So back in 2015 when I went through a pretty rough divorce, I remember having the thought, My life is over. And I was just so fully convinced of that. I was like, this is it for me, Lord. I now have this scarlet letter on me. Divorce gal in the church. I’m not gonna have children. I’m not gonna be able to get remarried.

Nobody’s gonna want me. I mean, the whole multitude of thoughts that went past just that thought of my life is over were not true. Not one of those things was true, but I was so down and I was discouraged and felt like, Hey, I have tried to do the right thing here. God, I tried to marry somebody in the church.

I’ve tried to serve you. I’ve tried to read my Bible and pray and do the Christian thing. Right. And it just didn’t work out the way that I wanted it to, or the way that I hoped it would. I remember being a single woman for several years and saying, Lord, there are no good Christian men left in this world.

I don’t see them. They’re not on the pews of the church. Nola, we have photos. I should pull one up. Where we had like a row of single women at my church is like, where were the guys? And there were maybe a few, a handful, but it was mostly single women who were there, who were devoted, who were trying to serve God.

And I thought, where are the men? Where are the good Christian men? I don’t see them around. And I think about this time in my life and how I’m telling God, right? God knows the future and he knows his plans for me. And I’m telling him. Lord, you’re not going to be able to find me, a Christian man, I don’t think you can do it.

And there isn’t one around here. And God’s like, hee hee hee hee. I don’t know, God’s just like chuckling over there going, Carrie, you have no idea, I got one saved right up for you. You just don’t know yet. He hasn’t been brought into your life, because it’s not the right season for you. I remember when my dad died just really thinking I am alone in this world.

I’m just alone. I’m an orphan. I have no parents left. Losing my mom was hard for sure, but when I lost my dad six months later, there’s something about losing that second parent that nobody prepared me for this, probably because most of the people I’m around hadn’t lost both parents. When you lose that second parent, you go through this, like, lost moment where you’re like, Who am I?

Like, I know who I am. It’s very strange. I don’t know that I’m doing it justice, but you do feel like an orphan and like, I don’t know, someone pulled up your roots or something and you have to kind of re find them. It’s like, you go through a little bit of an identity crisis, I think, almost. Even if you have a good sense of who you are, it’s just like, Man, I don’t have any parents anymore.

Like, I had parents my whole life and now I don’t have any parents. It was a strange thing. I felt very isolated and alone because even a lot of my grandmother on my mom’s side is still living. Well, I was like, my aunts haven’t even lost both of their parents. I was like, this is a really weird phenomena situation here.

Like, who do I talk to about this? It did feel very isolating alone, but God got me out of that pretty quickly because he brought just supportive people around me to let me know, like, I’m not alone. I don’t have to go through this alone. But I do remember feeling very isolated and alone during that time, even though I was married, even though I was in church community, I was just felt very lost when we’re going through hardships, tragedies, traumas, whatever it is.

We can’t always think clearly. Elijah fled for his life. I’m sure that that was a tough experience to go through. Having this evil, wicked woman who’s in charge of the country tell you, I’m gonna send somebody to kill you. Obviously, that’s scary. He ran from Jezebel. He’s not thinking clearly. He’s saying, I’m the only one left.

And sometimes God needs to come in during these times and correct our thinking. We have to be open though. We have to be willing to say, God, am I believing a lie right now? Can you show me in my life what I am believing and let me know, is that the truth about my situation or do you have something that you want to speak into this situation that is the truth?

Sometimes, we can’t sense God or know what he’s up to because he’s not where we think he is. I’m going to show you. In 1 Kings 19. 11, the Lord said, Go out and stand on the mountain in the presence of the Lord, for the Lord is about to pass by. This is after Elijah stated his complaint initially. Then a great and powerful wind tore the mountains apart and shattered the rocks before the Lord, but the Lord was not in the wind.

And after the wind there was an earthquake, but the Lord was not in the earthquake. After the earthquake came a fire, but the Lord was not in the fire. And after the fire came a gentle whisper. When Elijah heard it, he pulled his cloak over his face and went out and stood at the mouth of a cave. God is not always where we think he is.

We want to look for God in the big moments of life. Sometimes people will even say, I want to see a big move of God, but you don’t realize all the small little pieces, the tiny interactions. If you are having an interaction with another human being, that can be incredibly powerful. You don’t know if you’re the only person that is going to smile at that person today, or maybe they’re in a difficult customer service role and you have a way to just bless them or speak kindness to them.

You might be the only one that handles it that way. You don’t know. And we can’t miss these opportunities that God gives us, but also in the hard times when you’re in the valley, look for the flowers because there are usually some type of small bright spots that God gives you. I’ll give you a little bit of example.

I don’t know if I’ve shared this before, but It was during that single season where I was struggling, I was having a hard time because of just the lack of touch in my life, for lack of a better way to say it, but I think physical touch is just an important human need that people have, and when you don’t have a built in husband at home, it’s hard to get those needs met, right?

So I was just talking to my friends about buying this. Pillow. It was almost like a pregnancy pillow that like wraps all the way around you or something. I was like, maybe I should buy this pillow. Maybe that will help me. And was just talking about some discouragement over still being single and not being able to find anybody.

They were like, yeah, maybe you should get pillow, whatever. You got to figure out ways to get your needs met in a healthy way, right? And I went into the grocery store. This is going to sound so weird, but I’m going to say it anyway, because somebody is here. So I went in the grocery store and there were like the first pomegranates of the season, and I was like, Oh, this is just so great because pomegranates have just a short season that you can get them in the winter, and it’s like they’re really good.

And I love pomegranates. It’s hard to find a good one sometimes, but I was just so happy, like, that I had found these pomegranates, and it was this little flower in the midst of my desert, or like, a flower in the midst of the valley. It was something beautiful, and I was just like, thank you, God. Thank you, God, the pomegranates are back.

It just kind of made my day in such a small way, and it was just this glimmer of God’s love for me and God’s grace. So I would encourage you to look for God in the small pieces. If you can’t see him in the big puzzle pieces of your life, know he’s working behind the scenes. But look for him in the small, good pieces.

There was a period of time where I wrote down one good thing about my day. And let me tell you, if you practice that exercise, it’s not always an easy one. Like some days, it’s easy. Oh, wow, this thing happened, it was so great. There’s other days that are rough, and you have to really search, like you have to really put your magnifying glasses on to find something good about the day.

But if you’ll do that, what it does is it creates more thankfulness in your life, but it does, it causes you to start to look for those small things. That are God’s goodness all around you that oftentimes we don’t recognize. That’s another exercise for you that you can do if you think it might help you.

One good thing about your day, jot it on the calendar somewhere, or one area that you saw God that day. Back to the story of Elisha in verses 15 through 17, God gives Elijah directions and next steps about where to go. So if you’re feeling a little lost, maybe you’re praying about wisdom, about a decision, you don’t feel like God is pulling you one way or the other, just know that God will give you directions and next steps about what to do.

And in that way, God was saying, once again, your life’s not over. I’m not done with you. Keep moving forward. So, what do we learn from this? What do you do if you don’t feel God in your life? Is there a blatant sin? This episode is not mainly on sin, but what if there is? I’m not talking about OCD telling you that you didn’t confess that you stole your third grade teacher’s pen.

Okay? That’s not what I’m talking about. Are you living in a pattern of sin where, that you have not repented from, that you are not working on getting right? Get that right first. See if there are any physical needs you need to pay attention to, like sleep or eating or exercise. Diet. Continue to spend time with God.

Look for God in the places where you might least expect Him. Talk to Him about how you feel. Be submissive to God in correcting your thinking. Sometimes when we’re going through hard things, we’re just not thinking clearly. You may need to go to counseling to bounce some ideas about what’s going on in your head with somebody else.

Or you may say, I know I’m not thinking right about this, but I don’t know how to shift it. It’s okay to get help for that. Reflect on the past things that God has done for you. So important. Just remember, remember, remember areas where you’ve seen God show up for you. If He’s shown up for you in the past, He’s going to show up for you again.

He’s going to do that again. And keep moving until God steers you in a different direction. Elijah had done the specific things God called him to do, but he didn’t know quite yet what his next direction was. Until next time, may you be comforted by God’s great love for you. Were you blessed by today’s episode?

If so, I’d really appreciate it if you would go over to your iTunes account or Apple Podcasts app on your computer if you’re an Android person and leave us a review. Thank you. This really helps other Christians who are struggling with OCD be able to find our show. Christian Faith and OCD is a production of By the Well Counseling.

This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be a substitute for seeking mental health treatment in your area.