Skip to main content

Tag: Christian Faith

239. Discerning God’s Call in a New Season with Mandy Horne

Written by Carrie Bock on . Posted in Personal Testimony, Podcast Episode.

In this episode, Carrie sits down with Mandy Horne, a registered nurse, board-certified holistic nurse, and nurse coach, to explore how to discern God’s call in a new season, recognize His guidance through uncertainty, and take faithful steps forward when the full path is not yet clear.

Episode Highlights:

  • How to discern whether God may be calling you into a new season
  • Why God may give you one step instead of the entire plan
  • How prayer, Scripture, community, and wise counsel can help confirm a decision
  • Why grief and joy can exist together during major life transitions
  • How abiding in Christ can help you recognize His voice when fear and uncertainty get loud

Episode Summary

How Do You Know If a Decision Is Actually God’s Timing or Just Your Own Impatience?

We want a clear sign, a checklist, something that removes all the guesswork before we commit to anything. But that’s rarely how God works, and learning to sit in that tension is its own kind of spiritual discipline.

This week’s guest on the Christian Faith and OCD podcast, Mandy Horne, is a registered nurse, board certified holistic nurse, and nurse coach who spent 25 years working in hospitals, most of it on postpartum units with moms and babies, before God moved her into nurse coaching. She tells me what it was like when everyone around her kept pointing to the same “logical” next step, a nurse practitioner degree, while her stomach turned every time it came up. That gap between what looks smart on paper and what actually brings peace is worth paying attention to.

What Does Obedience Look Like When You Don’t Know What Comes Next?

Sometimes faith means taking a step before you have the whole picture. Mandy shares how she learned to move forward without having every detail, trusting that God would provide what she needed as she continued to follow Him.

For anyone facing a decision, transition, or season of waiting, this raises an important question: What if you don’t need the entire map before taking the next step?

How Can You Tell If God Is Really Confirming a Direction?

When we’re trying to discern God’s will, we may look for one unmistakable answer. Mandy describes how prayer, Scripture, wise counsel, and unexpected encouragement from other believers became part of recognizing God’s direction.

The challenge is learning to seek confirmation without turning discernment into a search for absolute certainty. Staying close to Christ can help us become more familiar with His voice and more attentive when He leads us.

Why Can a New Season Feel Both Exciting and Difficult?

Transitions don’t always feel the way we expect them to. Mandy experienced both joy and grief as her daughter left for college and as she began moving toward a different professional season.

Whether you’re facing an empty nest, career change, shifting family responsibilities, or another major transition, you may find yourself holding excitement and loss at the same time. Learning to make room for both can be an important part of moving forward.

What If You Feel Like You Need More Certainty Before You Move Forward?

It’s tempting to believe we need to know more, prepare more, or have everything figured out before we’re ready to follow God’s direction.

But sometimes the desire for certainty can keep us stuck. Instead of demanding the whole plan, what might change if we focused on staying close to Christ and being faithful with the next step in front of us?

How Do You Trust God When You Can’t See What Comes Next?

When you’re in a season of uncertainty, it’s easy to feel like you need to know how everything will work out before you can move forward. But trusting God doesn’t mean having all the answers. It means remembering His faithfulness, staying close to Him, and trusting Him with the parts of your future you cannot see yet.

Mandy’s experience of following God’s direction through multiple seasons shows how past moments of His faithfulness can become anchors when the future feels uncertain. Remembering what God has already done can give you the courage to trust Him with what comes next.

Tune in to hear Mandy Horne’s story and find encouragement for trusting God’s timing when you’re facing uncertainty, change, or a new season.

Get Mandy’s Sacred Season Starter Kit… for the Midlife Christian Woman

https://gift.wellspringoflifecoaches.com/wellspringssskit

Connect with Mandy:

www.wellspringoflifecoaches.com/

TikTok: www.tiktok.com/@wellspring.rn

Skool Community: https://www.skool.com/wellspringrn/about

Transcript

Carrie: I love today’s episode because there’s a lot of personal testimony here that I think you can learn from about how to know if God is calling you into a new season. Welcome, OCD warriors, to the Christian Faith and OCD podcast, where we are all about reducing shame and stigma of struggling with OCD as a Christian, sharing hopeful stories, and replacing uncertainty with faith as you develop practical tools for greater peace.

I’m Carrie Bock, Christ follower, wife, mom, and licensed professional counselor in Tennessee. I pray you are blessed by today’s episode. I’m joined today by Mandy Horn, registered nurse, board-certified holistic nurse and nurse coach, founder of Wellspring of Life Coaches. With more than 25 years of nursing experience, her own personal health journeys, Mandy really helps midlife women navigate burnout, hormonal changes, caregiving, empty nest, and seasons of transition.

This episode isn’t just for women, though. It’s for anyone who’s navigating transition or change or who is wanting to hear God’s voice. Mandy, tell us a little bit about yourself.

Mandy: I have been married for 25 years, so my husband and I, we’ve been together 28 years altogether. But throughout our 25 years of marriage, we have been interwoven through multiple different ministries from missionaries with The Navigators, college students, then he was a pastor at a church, and now he’s a chaplain.

Mandy: That’s not something I can go to work with him necessarily. It’s a little bit different ministry for our family for the first time. But yes, we have two kiddos. We have one 22-year-old, will be a senior in college, so it’s crazy, and a 19-year-old with special needs. He has Asperger’s and ADHD, OCD, all sorts of things, and he took the last year off and is going to be starting at a technical school.

Mandy: I can’t think what they’re called, trade school type things. My personal kinda path in between all that, I’ve been a nurse for 25 years. Majority of that period of my nursing career was on postpartum with moms and babies. So loved that time, and then the Lord called me out to coaching just a few years ago.

Mandy: So that is where I am now. That was a really quick run-through.

Carrie: Yeah, I mean, that was one of the things that we wanted to dive into a little bit more because you help people who are moving into different seasons of life. I think a lot of times our listeners with OCD really struggle even if they don’t have OCD.

Carrie: Is this something from God? Is it not? I don’t know if this is true for you. It feels like when we’re trying to make these big decisions, it’s like God moves slowly and then quickly sometimes. It’s like slowly, like little things get dropped to us, and then all of a sudden it’s like, “Oh, it’s time.” Like, “I need to move.

Carrie: I need to do the thing.” I don’t know if that’s true for you or not. That’s just something that I’ve seen. But like tell us a little bit about like some of these circumstances that caused you to shift from nursing, that’s a long time in a nursing career, to then nurse coaching.

Mandy: Yeah, definitely. I feel like there were multiple things that kinda led to this, but my own kinda health journey Myself personally, I had three open heart surgeries when I was 19, both genetic things both my grandma and mom had, but not anything that we knew was genetic at that point.

Mandy: Watching my mom and grandma and their health journey That was not very good. I knew that like, okay, is that the path I wanna go down, or is there something I can do to, to prevent this, to change the outcome necessarily? So when the Lord moved us from Texas to Indiana back in 2011, I was just suddenly exposed to a good portion of the people at our church who were doing just things that were different, holistic, preventative healthcare, things like that.

Mandy: And that was just a huge turning point for me because I was curious, I should say. I had always been taught in the medical field and nursing that conventional medicine, traditional nursing, all that stuff were all that there was, and that any holistic practices or things like that were questionable or even kind of ridiculous.

Mandy: It was often like a mock thing, a laughter, a not very cool thing. But as I look back even now, like, I don’t blame any of those people ’cause that’s just what they were taught. They didn’t know any different. There’s lots of stuff out there on the … They play in it, they do it. No, I don’t think … That’s not the heart of

Mandy: Most people is not to cause harm, especially anyone who is called to something in the medical field. That was a little sidescript, but I just really started researching myself. Like, that has just been something that I love doing. I love researching, and I started paying attention to those families, and just noticing that there were more intentional choices when it came to food for their family, environments that they were exposed to.

Mandy: So you kind of have like physical, mental, emotional, all that, how they dealt with stress, and just their overall health, and there were less illnesses. I really can’t even think of anybody who had any chronic health struggles. I wanted to understand why, so that’s why I started really researching it myself.

Mandy: Many of them were part of, like, some MLM companies, you know, oils or different things like that, which made me a little more skeptical, for sure. As I watched and researched myself, I started changing some of those things for our family, like things that we ate, or getting rid of chemicals and toxins that are in our home, and just paying more attention to what we did physically as far as what we put in our bodies, how we took care of our bodies, and that’s including, like, mental, emotional part, and of course, spiritual.

Mandy: Like, that’s the foundation of all of it, our walk with Christ. So I just really dove into it deep. It started out with little things here and there to where there was just a total transformation in our home, and it was just crazy, the results that we saw. And then as I continued working, being a nurse in the hospital, I couldn’t help but not notice how many people came in with things that could’ve been prevented, or most likely could’ve been prevented, by all means.

Mandy: It broke my heart, honestly, just knowing that there was another option, and I couldn’t say anything. You know, you can’t talk about it in the hospital setting or most medical places. I shared with a lot of nurses. Actually, quite a few of us on our unit started doing some things together and just seeing some real changes in their health and their families, and I did get to integrate a few alternative therapies in my hospital.

Mandy: That was a-

Carrie: Wow …

Mandy: crazy experience, but yeah, that- Took almost four years, but it did happen, and it has now gone over to all of the same, the entire system. Like, they have eight locations, so it’s, like, transpired through all of them. So that’s been pretty cool to see, ’cause that was just something the Lord laid on my heart, and I thought, like, that would be it.

Mandy: I thought that was that pivotal moment. The Lord used me to get that into some of the hospitals, but then I just didn’t feel a peace or, like, that was the end. Felt like that was more the starting point, kind of like what you just said a minute ago, the starting point of that transition for me, where He just was like, “Okay, you obeyed me in this one little thing, and now I have something else for you to do.”

Carrie: Tell us about, like, what kind of small changes were you seeing? I’m curious about specifically with your special needs son. What did you notice kind of as you changed some maybe food or environmental things? Was it just less stress on the body made it easier to manage, like, symptoms?

Mandy: Yeah, gut health is one of the biggest things.

Mandy: So when you’re eating real natural food, not getting foods that have hormones or added antibiotics and all these other things that they add to our foods, the dyes that are added, all those kind of things, um, those just cause more inflammation. And there’s that gut-brain connection that is just absolutely amazing, that connection there.

Mandy: So by healing his gut, and not just him, but our whole family. My daughter really struggled with a lot of anxiety. My husband, pain and different things. I always had real bad reflux and migraines. And making those transitions just changed everything. I would love to be able to say that, you know, my son is no longer autistic or

Mandy: He still had those tendencies, but actually a total different side thing. Just a couple years ago, I dove into homeopathy. Um, I don’t teach. I’m not a homeopath, so I don’t teach that. But had never heard of it. It was just another one of those just random holistic options. And I always thought, “Okay, well, that, I’ll try everything, but not that, ’cause that’s really weird.

Mandy: I don’t understand it.” But we did. I finally did, and that has made the biggest transformation for my son, which was absolutely crazy. Anyhow, but I can get deeper on that, but I’m not a homeopath. I don’t wanna speak incorrectly on it.

Carrie: Gotcha. So interesting just that the change in environment really caused you to do some more research, caused you to try a few things, and you saw some changes in your family.

Carrie: That bled over into work. This is really interesting, too, because I think when God moves us, there’s a certain level of unsettled. Like you were saying, it’s like, “Oh, this is cool, but oh, that wasn’t all there was. So this wasn’t, like, the end point of what God wanted me to do. Like, there’s something a little, like, stirring in my spirit.

Carrie: Maybe there’s something more here.” So tell us about that, kind of like as you were maybe wrestling or praying through that. What came up for you?

Mandy: I was unsettled. I didn’t feel competent. I think I’ve kind of said that before. I feel like as the enemy starts to bring just constant self-doubt to us, and we can either grab hold of that and take that thought captive and turn to the Lord and seek His truth and that possible lie that we’re speaking to ourselves.

Mandy: I felt like I really had to have all the answers to, like, be an expert in everything before the Lord could use me. So I feel like for several years, I was just researching, digging more, trying to get all these different certifications, trying to become just the expert, but then realizing that I didn’t need that.

Mandy: Like, God, He doesn’t call the ones who are already knowledgeable and have all the answers, know everything, but He calls you, and then He provides. He prepares, He provides for us. He gives us the word. Invite the Holy Spirit, and He will walk with you through that It’s really that one step at a time is what I’ve seen really is taking one obedient step at a time.

Mandy: And you’re not gonna have the whole picture out front. Like, He doesn’t give us the whole map or blueprint or anything, but He’s that light for that one step to take the next step, and then just kind of build on that. There was a period of time when I first started seeking what exactly the Lord was calling me to do next, where He showed me, uh, coaching.

Mandy: I had actually never heard of coaching. And then He said, “Yes,” but He said, “But wait.” And that was confusing for me, I think. But as I look back and reflect, that was the time it was my daughter’s senior year in high school. There was just a lot going on in our family. We actually moved my parents here from Texas and built a home together, so we were all learning to adjust to that in one space.

Mandy: But I know that what was nice was having just that peace of knowing, okay, this isn’t the right time. When it is, He’ll show me. And just continuing to seek His truth, be in the Word, pray through it, ask for a wise counsel of friends, family, church members to kind of confirm that. And when I say that, I always wanna say, I didn’t say, “Hey, can you confirm to me that I’m in God’s will?”

Mandy: It was more just like, yeah, it was praying that, “Lord, would you bring that confirmation if I’m in your will, if this is the direction?” And it was probably the coolest thing I’ve experienced in my years of walking with the Lord, was just how randomly it was, how He would send another believer to just say something to me that maybe they didn’t have any idea necessarily what it meant, but it was that confirmation that the Lord sent.

Mandy: And, and I like to encourage people with that. If the Lord lays something on your heart for someone else, share it. Like, that’s an act of obedience there, you sharing that because you have no idea what that is gonna mean for that person. So I think I got off the trail there.

Carrie: No, I think that’s good. I’m on this book-writing journey that the Lord has brought me to, and it’s been a very long journey of thinking about writing a book, of thinking about different topics, of really feeling like it wasn’t the right time.

Carrie: Like you said, yeah, maybe that’s for me someday, but I’m just gonna lay that to the side and just trust God with that. And different people have said things like, “You should write a book,” or, “I would love more information about this,” et cetera. And so it’s just interesting. And I don’t know exactly where that journey is gonna go fully, but it’s, uh, quite a messy process.

Carrie: But I can definitely see how it’s been a long time coming. It’s not been a rushed process. And I think sometimes we’re so much in a rush. Like, “I gotta know right now, and I gotta know how it’s all gonna turn out and make sure it’s okay,” and God doesn’t give you that. Like you were saying, it’s more like, no, God gives you the peace.

Carrie: You’re on the right track. This is just put one step in front of the other, the road that you’re going down. And I think really having the time to devote to it, where you knew, like, your family was gonna be more settled, your daughter was gonna be graduated, and all of that, that makes sense. How did you have that assurance that it was time when those things settled?

Mandy: Yeah. I feel like the assurance didn’t come from, like, having one big dramatic sign or knowing, like, every detail of exactly what I should do. So that’s for sure. I feel like he, like I mentioned before, he doesn’t give us that whole blueprint up front. So I was kind of praying through, this is pre-finding, like, the coaching option.

Mandy: Everyone kept saying, “You need to become a nurse practitioner. You need to do this or that.” And I had just no peace about becoming a nurse practitioner. In fact, it kind of made me sick to my stomach every time that it came up. But I experienced, like, a deep peace And just recognition when I did discover the nurse coaching thing.

Mandy: God, like, repeatedly confirmed that direction through prayer and scripture and other believers, like I mentioned. I sensed a clear instruction to remain focused during that time on my family for that season, and then when that timing finally changed, that calling was still there, and I was more prepared to receive it.

Mandy: And I, I can tell you the moment, like, that the Lord just brought me this peace. Honestly, it just was in a moment of grieving my daughter being off at college. Have you experienced the emptiness in your kids off yet? No. Okay.

Carrie: I am qu- quite far from that.

Mandy: Yeah, I didn’t think you had yet, but just prepare your heart for that.

Mandy: It was a lot harder than I expected. I think we long– We see our kids succeeding, doing these things. We think it’s just gonna be all peace and joy and wonderful, and it is for some people. But for my husband and I, it was kind of devastating. Like, we were happy and sad all at once. There was joy and grief all together.

Mandy: It was just a mix of emotions we didn’t anticipate having. And as I was literally just crying and crying to the Lord for her protection, for her experience there, for the people she would encounter on campus as they would continue to pour into her and her walk, the Lord literally just laid on my heart, “Okay, now it’s your turn.

Mandy: Now you can go and pursue that.” It was just a moment where I just– Did I hear you right? Are you sure? I don’t think so. I’m a hot mess right now. And the Lord just gave me such a peace, and my time with Him through the Word, confirmation after confirmation, and that’s when I was saying that the Lord brought several people from church who just came up and randomly said things that I knew without a doubt was from the Lord, just that confirmation.

Mandy: That was just sweetness of how much our Heavenly Father loves us and cares and how He pursues us.

Carrie: Yeah. I mean, just the whole structure of your day because you had been homeschooling as well, that now you had a lot more time to dedicate to things. The happy/sad with that. I’m sad that I’m not– and still investing in this way, and the happy of, like, she’s launching out into the world, and you have done the beginning part of the parenting, right?

Carrie: And now there’s some letting go. Not that the parenting ends. I think we’ve brought this up before, and I really, I guess, wanna stress to people that in our Christian life, we don’t wanna just go to God when we feel like we need something or we feel like we need an answer. Here I am, God, I need this answer, or I have this uncertainty, and I need you to kinda, like, fill this gap.

Carrie: How do you feel like that time of, like, abiding in Christ, of whatever that looks like, the worship, the prayer, being in community On a day-to-day basis, how do you feel like that connects with when people are making these big transitions of decisions, like for a new season?

Mandy: Honestly, I really can’t fathom, like, trying to navigate life, especially big transitions, without that walk with Christ, bringing that hope, like the light in the dark world.

Mandy: I mean, you know all this crazy stuff going on in our world today, but, like, living in the dark, and we hear so many voices, I feel like, coming out of so many opinions and responsibilities of all these things that we’ve gotta take care of, and fears and uncertainties and all that, and it’s just constantly consuming.

Mandy: But when we abide in Christ alone, that’s a reminder that we don’t have to understand the entire story, because we trust the one who’s writing that story for us. One of the verses that I go to often, I’m trying to think right now where. I think it’s John 15:4, the, “Abide in me, and I in you. And apart from me, you can do nothing.”

Mandy: To me, that abiding means remaining closely connected to Christ, and that can be, you know, prayer, scripture, time alone with Him. Worship is a huge one that I feel like is so empowering for me That daily dependence on him that keeps us close to him so we can recognize his voice and when he tells us.

Mandy: You’ve probably heard multiple times, if you aren’t spending time with your spouse, you know you’re not gonna know them. But the more time you spend with them, you know their voice, you know their sneeze, their cough, all the little sounds that they make. And it’s the same thing in our relationship with the Lord, that being close to him, we can recognize his voice.

Mandy: And when he does clearly call us or tell us to maybe take that next step or whatever it is. And we have a lot of just really cool testimonies, I feel like over the years, of where the Lord has come in and intervened and told us to do something that seemed absolutely crazy. And in fact, we had one before moving from Texas to Indiana, where it was kind of like the joke of the community because we were like, “The Lord is telling us to move, to leave, to go somewhere.”

Mandy: We didn’t know where at that point yet, but we knew clearly the Lord said what to do. The Lord literally told me, “Start packing things and sell all of this.” Like, we sold all of our furniture, everything, and we had not taken on a new position or anything but the Lord clearly told my husband that, “You’re leaving this ministry,” that was leaving Navigators, “and I have somewhere else for you.”

Mandy: And so when my daughter was in public school at that point, she was in kindergarten. She was in first grade at that point. Yeah, they were like, “Where are you going?” We’re like, “We don’t know yet, but we trust the Lord. He told us to pack.” And literally when we sold our stuff, all of our stuff sold in one weekend, and I’m talking multiple people.

Mandy: It wasn’t like one person came and bought it all, like everything. Anyhow, that’s just a small little just testimony. If you start to know what it feels like when he tells you to do something and to act in obedience.

Carrie: Yeah. And then the opportunity, like the door opened there really fast or something? Was it like one of those situations?

Mandy: Yeah.

Carrie: Yeah.

Mandy: Literally, I can share. It was Easter Sunday of 2011. We had been packed for a couple months at that point, and a church in Indiana called us. And just to know a little backstory before that, when God was telling us to pursue family and children’s ministry, we were like, “Okay, great.” So my husband put out applications all over Texas and, like, there were no bites, no bites, no bites.

Mandy: Or, like, we’d have interviews and it was like, “That is not where God’s calling us.” And the Lord brought us to a point where he was like, “Do you trust me? Why are you limiting my boundaries, like, on a global map?” And we’re like, “Well, okay, maybe we’ll trust you with that part. Where are you thinking that you wanna send us?”

Carrie: Yeah.

Mandy: There was, like, a church in Kansas. I was trying to think where it was, and then there were, like, five in Indiana, and literally I was like, “Okay, where’s Indiana again? I don’t really remember where that state is. Who in the world goes to Indiana?” Yeah. Like Indiana.

Carrie: That’s

Mandy: funny. But Easter Sunday, yeah, a church from Indiana called us, and we started talking to them.

Mandy: We had to sit on my son’s bed because we had kept our kids’ furniture. That was it. Everything else had already been sold. My husband and I were sleeping on a blow-up mattress. We didn’t have a kitchen table. Our couches were gone. Everything was gone, and they didn’t know that. They flew us out for an interview.

Mandy: We were here for, like, five days, and then when we got back home, they wanted us to have a video call, which was very rare back then to have video calls, of course, in 2011. And it was with all the elders so they could do, like, their final interview, and they were like, “Well, we just want you to know we’ve already made a decision.

Mandy: We love you. We want you guys here. Like, how soon do you think you guys can be here?” We’re like, “Next week.” And they’re like, “Well, don’t you need to, like, pack or sell your hou-” We’re like, “No.” We were renting. We were like, we had already released the rent and our whole house is packed and ready, ’cause God told us to be ready.

Mandy: That’s a very short end of that story, but it was just an amazing– And we always reflect back to that. There was a time my husband left that church that God moved us to Indiana for just a couple years ago to become a chaplain. And we were just like, “Man, did you really bring us here, like, for him to not stay there?”

Mandy: I mean, he was there for seven years. We can’t deny the testimony of the Lord bringing us here. And then we thought we would move back to Texas for sure. We’re gonna move back to Texas. You know, we homeschool. We don’t have to stay here. The Lord said, “No, this is where I want you. I want you here in Indiana.”

Mandy: We’re like, “Okay.” And then we moved my parents here, so now we’re here for life, I guess.

Carrie: Man, I love those stories because I do think they provide what I’d call, like, an anchor point. In Joshua, when they were crossing the Jordan River, he’s like, “Take a stone. You’re gonna remember that day that God, oh, parted the Jordan River so that we could walk across and go to the Promised Land.”

Carrie: And I think that God gives us those stones kind of in our own life, and we have to be willing to not forget them, to make some type of, like, write it down, put it in our brain, make a piece of art so that we remember to look back and say, like, “Yeah, God did that. And if God did that, then God can do this over here.

Carrie: God can lead me into this next season. If God got me through the last season, He’s gonna lead me forward into the next one.” You talked about a little bit of grief and loss in terms of going from homeschool mom and, like, launching your daughter out to college to the transition, the grief and loss that occurred there.

Carrie: Was there some grief and loss from leaving the hospital, from leaving, like, postpartum work that you wrestled with?

Mandy: Yeah. I’m not completely gone from the hospital. I actually still work part-time, so I like to-

Carrie: Oh, okay …

Mandy: still say that. But yeah, there was tremendous … I feel like there was absolutely grief in that.

Mandy: Let me kind of backtrack a little, see. So it was something that was on my heart for so long. So there were one point, as far as the nursing part, there was tremendous joy and anticipation of being able to just leave at that point because I felt like, surely God doesn’t want me here anymore. He’s transitioning me to this other place.

Mandy: And right now, just living in that middle transition rather than standing, like, on that side where I had been for so long. I’d been at the hospital for so long, just longing for getting to the other side. Now I’m in that balancing, trying to balance between when is time to let go of more hours, those kind of things.

Mandy: But being here is just surreal To know that it had been on my heart and the Lord had been calling me to this for so long, I’m not saying there’s not days that are hard, because almost every day is hard, for sure, but I know this is the Lord, what He has called me to. There’s definitely a difference in knowing, like, what He’s calling you to, when to take that first step of obedience, and to be faithful in pursuing what He’s called you to.

Mandy: I feel like coaching brings me such a joy, and being able to pour into the women in a way that I never felt like I had the opportunity before. When I did nursing on the floor for so long, I prayed every day on my way to the hospital. I prayed that He would give me the right patient, the right person at the right time, and it was amazing to see the interaction and how

Mandy: I don’t know if you know how the hospital world works, but you have, like, say, 50 patients, and you have 10 nurses, and then everyone’s just randomly assigned five patients or something like that. It was so awesome to see how the Lord put His hand even on that during that season. That was my calling during that season, um, without a doubt.

Mandy: And to see how the patients that He gave me, the interactions, being able to plant seeds or maybe confirm, it was so crazy how often I had other maybe moms that were having babies and who preferred a more holistic side, whereas some of the other nurses would have been very negative and given them grief in that situation, if you know what I mean.

Mandy: Seeing His hand on me during that time, and even the days that I still work for the hospital, how He still intercedes and He’s still using me in that time, compared to the nursing, where I just feel total freedom to be myself, to be able to share what has just empowered me and given me just hope for people.

Mandy: And one of the things I coach through is not just physical health, but the main foundation is that spiritual foundation of where they are in their walk with Christ. Because without that foundation, nothing else matters. That is something that I love being able to share that, ’cause I can’t do that at the hospital.

Mandy: I cannot speak. Unless someone speaks Jesus or something first, I cannot say anything. So being able to have that freedom now, and for clients that come to me, majority, in fact, all of them are believers typically. I’ve had a couple who weren’t, but I trusted that the Lord brought those people so I could plant seeds in their lives.

Mandy: There’s been grief about leaving that one side, but then joy. There’s been grief about not being able to be fully into coaching yet. So it’s kind of that mixture, that mixture of that joy and grief, and I feel like they kind of come hand-in-hand. Kind of like when we look at when your child goes off to college and you have joy and grief there.

Mandy: You have joy that they’re doing what you have prepared them for, but then grief that’s gonna change kind of your life and relationship almost forever at that point.

Carrie: Let’s talk a little bit about what is it that you do through Nurse Coaching, like how do you help people with transitions, and you kinda spoke to looking at several different aspects of health.

Mandy: I help women who are in midlife seasons, so that 40 and up age range just kind differs. I have quite a few, like, in their 60s and even a couple in their 70s. I mean, if you look back, you went from being a teenager to maybe a newlywed, then all of a sudden becoming a parent. All these different stages and transitions.

And for so long I feel like it’s just a natural, easy flow of transition that we kind of anticipate and expect to come with life. All of a sudden midlife comes. I think most of us look forward to midlife of my kids are grown, you know, I don’t have that responsibility as much anymore, depending on where you’re at.

And then maybe you’re at a pivotal point in your career. Many of the women I talk to are at a point where they’re really successful and finally reached, like, that, that kind of main point that they’ve been trying for for so long. Sometimes it’s really unexpected to have these shifts and that empty nest, that stirring on your heart that you didn’t anticipate.

You finally got to where you thought you were gonna be, and it’s not quite what you thought it was gonna look like. A lot of the women I speak with are just kind of really on the pivotal edge. They’ve poured so much into their family and their careers and all these things for so many years, that their walk with Christ isn’t exactly where they thought it would be at this point either.

So there’s just, like, a million transitions, a million things happening all at once from physical, mental, emotional changes that hit us, aren’t necessarily always what we thought it was gonna be at this point. I really help women to slow down and reconnect in their identity with Christ, to recognize, like, where The peace might be leaking out and paying attention to the desires and gifts that God has repeatedly placed on their hearts.

Midlife, it’s more than a change in circumstance, whatever that is, empty nest or anything, but there’s just a real identity transition. Each woman comes to me with a different place, so there might be some physical things, maybe hormone changes is the biggest one for sure that we talk about and go through.

A lot of people are dealing with insulin imbalance and gut health that’s a mess or fear, grief, trauma is huge right now. I see a lot of women that are dealing with something from years back they’ve pushed down for so long because they’ve been so busy as a mom or in their careers that so many of these things just got pushed down, and not realizing how it just can often start festering back up and really messing us up.

It all connects, the spiritual, mental, emotional, physical, all of that connects. When you don’t have one of those things in alignment, it can often throw other things out of balance. That’s where I really try to help the ladies pour into where they’re at physically, where they’re at spiritually, mentally, emotionally.

Carrie: And there’s a level, too, where what took to get you maybe to that pivotal point or whatever you wanna say, or the success, it’s like you can no longer run 100 miles per hour on the treadmill. And so if people got used to that way of life and now their body is telling them, like we don’t have the physical energy or the emotional energy or sometimes the relational energy that we used to have for certain relationships that are draining.

Carrie: Like you said, the peace is leaking out all over the place. I like that phrase. I’m gonna have to ponder that a little bit more.

Mandy: And you bring up the relationships. The boundaries is a huge one. I feel like for women just, I think we feel like we need to be there immediately for everyone, and so it’s so much harder in midlife.

Like we can only handle so much, I think, and that’s part of that physical, mental, emotional. So learning how to have healthy boundaries with different people, even your grown kids and grandkids and those kind of things where you think that, “I’ve gotta say yes to everything,” but learning to have, like, boundaries to take care of yourself still in there.

Carrie: Yeah. That is really huge, and I know that sometimes it’s like saying no to one thing means you get to say yes to something else. And I’ve found for myself it’s much easier to say, “This is what I’m able to do right now,” versus just giving out like a flat no. “Here’s what I’m able to do or not able to do.”

Mandy: Exactly. But you have to know that ahead of time. Yeah.

Carrie: Yeah, you have to know that. Like be connected to yourself to know what you’re able to say yes to even. I think this is just incredibly timely conversation, and I think it’s gonna be helpful for many of our listeners, so I appreciate you coming and sharing your wisdom with us.

Mandy: Absolutely. Happy to do that.

Carrie: We’ll put your link to your website in the show notes and where people can find you.

Mandy: All right. Thank you for having me.

Carrie: Hey, if you love the podcast, I know you’re gonna love our email newsletter. It is sent out once a week on Wednesdays when we have new episodes come out.

Carrie: It’s an opportunity for me to share little devotional thoughts with you about what God is teaching me, and those on our email list are the first to know about things happening with the podcast. So if you’d like to be an email insider, all you have to do is go to carriebock.com and sign up for our email list.

Until next time, may you be comforted by God’s great love for you. Christian Faith and OCD Carrie: is a production of By The Well Counseling. Opinions given by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of myself or By The Well Counseling. This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be a substitute for seeking mental health treatment.

238. Is God Asking Me to Give This Up?

Written by Carrie Bock on . Posted in OCD, Podcast Episode.

In this episode, Carrie shares a personal story about how God led her to let go of something she had enjoyed for years, using that experience to help Christians with OCD recognize the difference between the Holy Spirit’s gentle conviction and fear.

You’ll Learn

  • How to recognize the difference between the Holy Spirit’s conviction and OCD’s urgency.
  • Why enjoying something doesn’t automatically make it an idol.
  • Biblical questions to ask when evaluating the entertainment you consume.
  • Why lasting spiritual transformation begins in the heart, not through fear or pressure.
  • How to respond to personal convictions without falling into condemnation or legalism.

How Do You Know When God Is Leading You to Let Something Go?

Recently, I made the decision to stop watching a certain type of TV show that I had enjoyed for years. It wasn’t something I felt pressured to do, and it wasn’t a decision I made overnight. As I reflected on that experience, I realized it shed light on a question I hear often from Christians with OCD.

How Can I Tell if God Is Convicting Me or If It’s Just OCD?

As a therapist, one of the questions I hear most often is, “How do I know if this is God speaking or if it’s just my OCD?” Those moments can feel confusing, especially when fear and conviction seem to overlap. In this episode, I share what my own experience taught me and why that distinction matters.

Does Enjoying Something Mean It Has Become an Idol?

I’ve worked with many Christians who become anxious because they enjoy something. They wonder if that enjoyment means they’ve put it ahead of God. This episode explores a different way of thinking through that question and the biblical principles that helped me evaluate my own situation.

How Should Christians Think About the Entertainment They Consume?

Not every decision about entertainment has a simple answer. Rather than looking for a list of rules, I found myself asking a different set of questions. Those questions helped me think more carefully about what was shaping my heart and my relationship with God.

What Does God’s Gentle Work in Our Lives Look Like?

One of the things that stood out to me most about this experience was what happened after I made my decision. It reminded me that God often works in our hearts in ways we don’t immediately recognize. I hope this conversation encourages you to be open to His leading without being driven by fear.

If you’ve ever wrestled with whether God is asking you to let go of something, or you’ve struggled to tell the difference between His conviction and fear, I hope you’ll listen to the full episode.

Transcript

Hi, I’m Carrie with Christian Faith and OCD. One thing that I see a lot of Christians struggle with, with OCD is this thought that, “Well, maybe if I really like something, that must mean that it’s an idol or it’s bad in some way, and God wants me to give it up.” I thought I would share a personal story for you of something that I gave up recently Welcome OCD warriors to the Christian Faith and OCD podcast, where we are all about reducing shame and stigma of struggling with OCD as a Christian, sharing hopeful stories, and replacing uncertainty with faith as you develop practical tools for greater peace.

I’m Carrie Bach, Christ follower, wife, mom, and licensed professional counselor in Tennessee. I pray you are blessed by today’s episode I’m not going to go into massive detail about it, but I will tell you that it was a TV show, and it wasn’t really just about this TV show, it was more about the genre of TV shows that this one in particular represented.

So it wasn’t just that I gave up necessarily that TV show, but other TV shows that were similar to it. And the whole entire process was actually really peaceful, and it got me thinking about how different it is than the OCD spiral operates. So the OCD comes in with a panic and says, “Hey, you really, really like this thing.

Maybe God doesn’t want you to do it,” or, “You don’t wanna do that thing. Well, therefore, maybe it means God wants you to do it.” Uses, like, this weird reverse logic against you. But in my own personal story, I was watching this TV show for many years, consuming this type of content for many years. The reason I’m not gonna go into depth is because I don’t want you to spiral out if you happen to watch these type of shows.

But what came to mind one day, I had finished the episode and I realized, you know what? I’m not in a good head space mentally, emotionally, and just something about this just really doesn’t jive with my spirit internally. And I thought, “Is this actually really benefiting me, or is it doing the exact opposite?

Is this something that’s tearing me down spiritually?” And like I said, it wasn’t a panic or a rush of anything that I had to do right away. It was more just a moment of contemplation that I believe came from the Holy Spirit of what is actually the fruit of this experience that you’re dealing with. And I wanted to bring up this verse for you.

This is 1 Corinthians 6:12, and Paul says, “All things are lawful for me, but not all things are helpful. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be dominated by anything.” That’s the ESV. Paul goes on to talk about food, but then he also goes on to talk about sexual immorality, so the context of the verse is really about sexual immorality and some freedoms that people were taking in the Corinthian church that they shouldn’t have been.

However, this verse got me thinking, and then there’s also another verse that talks about being innocent of evil, and I didn’t look that up ahead of time. But this comes up in Romans 16:19. The second part of the verse says, “I want you to be wise as to what is good and innocent as to what is evil.” That was another thing that came to mind was, am I consuming something that has some sense of evil in it?

Now, I’m not saying, like, the entire TV show was evil. I think there obviously are positive and negative aspects to many different things in our lives that we may come across on the internet or on TV. However, for me personally, after I had this evaluation moment after watching the TV show one day, I thought, “You know what?

I think I’m gonna stop watching this.” There wasn’t any grief over it. I wasn’t upset about it. I wasn’t panicked about it. I wasn’t worried about it. I just said, “You know what? Let me just see how I feel about disengaging, about not consuming this type of material anymore.” In the context really of what God has been doing in my life, I really feel like I’ve been in a place of refinement where God has been rooting out things that don’t need to be there, where God has been cutting off things that aren’t producing healthy fruit, where He has been just really refining different areas of my life, whether that’s relationships or activities I’m engaging in, the way I’m taking care of my health, et cetera.

And kinda knew already in the context, like, that’s what God has been working with me on, and part of that refinement process is just being able to be here and show up for all of you in a really healthy way, and that’s obviously something that I am desiring to do and desiring to honor God with my whole life and love Him with all my heart, soul, mind, and strength Several months ago, I didn’t exactly write down the date of when this occurred.

I’m not even sure how I would go about finding that out, but I know that it’s been several months now, and I can honestly say that I don’t miss it. So this was another important piece I wanted to share with all of you, is that I really feel like the Holy Spirit led me towards cutting something out of my life, and it doesn’t feel like a loss.

I don’t miss it. I’m not yearning for that. I’m not saying, “Oh, man, I remember when I used to watch that and it was really great.” I just don’t want to have anything to do with it anymore. And that was the part that actually surprised me the most. I found it, like, really bizarre. I was like, “Wait a minute.

What do you mean?” Like, this is something that I look forward to, like, new episodes coming out. Like, “Oh, there’s a new episode. I should go listen to it. What day does it come out on streaming that I’m gonna go stream it and watch it and consume this content?” I used to be, like, really excited about it. Now, I genuinely don’t care.

I’m not looking for it. I’m not interested. I genuinely believe that this has been a change from the inside out, that as God has been working on my heart, that He has removed a desire for something that I used to have and used to really enjoy. So a lot of times with OCD, what I see is that people get really works focused and get very externally focused and forget that we’re in a relationship with God on a day-to-day basis.

It’s a daily walk. It’s over the period of our life, however long that is. It’s not a sprint. It’s not a, we have to do all the things right now. There’s not a sense of, I’m not gonna be completely transformed by God tomorrow. And take it one step at a time. Like, as you spend time in the Word, and the closer that you are abiding in Christ, the more that you are spending time with Him, the more that you are getting to know Him.

Like, this transformation happens at a heart level, and then it extends out to what you do and how you live. So if there is something that you’re panicking over about whether or not God wants you to give that up, I wanted to send out this short encouragement to say that God does not bring this intense level of fear upon you to change.

It’s the kindness of the Lord that leads us to repentance. So if you’re in an immense amount of anxiety, that’s not being produced by the Holy Spirit. It is probably being produced by OCD. And so just take some time. Now, what I will say is just be open. If you’re consuming some type of content online, or if you are– have been following along with something and you do feel convicted, just leave that openness and that willingness to lay it down and say, “Okay, let me try to lay this down.”

Give it over to the Lord, disengage, and not continue to consume that. I know that TV shows are really interesting, especially if you’re following along with certain series. Sometimes they can start out kind of benign, they can be okay, and then they can dip into some really dark territories, and my husband and I have watched certain TV shows like that where all of a sudden it was going down this really dark road theme where it didn’t start out that way at all, and started out more as a lighthearted type of show.

So just be conscious of what your spirit is telling you and really being able to examine what’s the fruit of this experience. But to make these types of decisions, OCD can get super hyper-focused on specific decisions like this. Should I watch this TV show? Should I not? Is it a sin if I watch this? Is it not?

And I think that for me, I wouldn’t say to someone, you know, “Hey, if you watch this particular TV show, that’s a sin,” unless you’re just watching something that is about the abuse of children or females or et cetera, things that we know that are very clearly against our faith. But pornography-type stuff.

But if you are just watching television, I think that God deals with each of us individually, and certainly this is probably something that I could have given up a long time ago, and I think probably had wrestled with that at different points in my life, at different seasons. And I’m glad and thankful that God didn’t give up on me and didn’t shame me and didn’t condemn me for the period of time that I did hold onto it.

But I’m also very thankful to be on the other side to say that as a result of letting this go, like, that I can definitely see there’s more peace in my life, and the fruit has been that I’m not constantly getting sad when I watch this or anxious or being aware of certain things that I just don’t need to have any knowledge or awareness.

I know that this is a little bit of a shorter episode today, but I hope that it helps you as you’re thinking through or if you’ve run across this specific obsession for yourself of, is God asking me to give this thing up? I hope that this provides you some sense of grounding and encouraging that the Holy Spirit is loving, patient, gentle, caring towards you and wants your absolute best in your connection with Jesus Christ.

And so we don’t have to be afraid of conviction, because it’s conviction from the Holy Spirit. It’s not condemnation. Keep striving. Keep abiding in Christ. I love all of you, and we’ll be back next week. Until next time, may you be comforted by God’s great love for you Christian Faith and OCD is a production of By the Well Counseling.

This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be a substitute for seeking mental health treatment in your area

235. Learning to Trust When Everything is Uncertain: Part 2 of my Testimony 

Written by Carrie Bock on . Posted in Personal Testimony, Podcast Episode.

In this episode, Carrie continues with Part 2 of her testimony, sharing how God sustained her through a high-risk pregnancy, her husband’s rare neurological diagnosis, profound grief, and the ongoing journey of trusting Him through life’s greatest uncertainties.

Episode Highlights

  • Why trusting God often begins where control comes to an end.
  • How surrender became a turning point that strengthened her faith.
  • What helped Carrie navigate grief, uncertainty, and unanswered questions.
  • Why remembering God’s past faithfulness builds confidence for today’s challenges.
  • How living one day at a time creates space for peace and hope.

How Do You Trust God When Life Keeps Falling Apart?

In Part 2 of my testimony, I share one of the hardest seasons my family has ever walked through. Within a short period of time, I was navigating a difficult pregnancy while my husband was searching for answers to mysterious health symptoms that would eventually lead to a rare neurological diagnosis.

At the time, I couldn’t see how God was working. Looking back now, I realize He was building a deeper trust in Him than I had ever experienced before.

Why Does God Allow Unanswered Prayers Even When They Seem Good?

There were prayers I desperately wanted God to answer the way I had imagined. I pleaded with Him for things that seemed good, reasonable, and even life-giving. When those prayers unfolded differently, I wrestled honestly with disappointment and surrender.

That painful season taught me something about God’s character that I couldn’t have learned any other way, and it continues to shape how I approach uncertainty today.

How Can You Keep Your Faith During Grief, Illness, and Major Life Changes?

As my husband’s diagnosis became clearer, our family was also facing the devastating loss of my mother to pancreatic cancer. Those overlapping waves of grief, uncertainty, and responsibility stretched me in ways I never expected.

Rather than providing simple answers, God met me with His presence. Some of the greatest lessons came not from understanding everything, but from learning to depend on Him one day at a time.

Why Is Remembering God’s Faithfulness So Important During Hard Seasons?

When life feels overwhelming, it’s easy to focus on what hasn’t happened or what might happen next. I’ve discovered that one of the greatest ways to strengthen my faith is to intentionally remember where God has already carried me.

Those moments of remembering became spiritual markers that reminded me His faithfulness hadn’t changed, even when my circumstances had.

Can God Still Write a Beautiful Story Through Ongoing Suffering?

Our story isn’t finished. My husband continues living with spinocerebellar ataxia, yet we’ve also witnessed incredible evidence of God’s grace along the way. His journey has not followed the path we once feared, and every step reminds me that God is still writing our story.

I don’t pretend to understand every chapter, but I have learned that trusting the Author brings far more peace than trying to predict the ending.

I pray this conversation encourages you to trust God with your own unfinished story. Listen now, and if this episode encourages you, share it with someone who needs hope today.

Transcript

 It is early in the morning, five AM, at the Bock household, and I am currently the only one up upstairs recording, which is good for no child noise, but the cats are a little bit on the prowl. So we’re gonna see how this goes. Last week, I went through part one of my testimony. So if you didn’t get a chance to listen to that about clinging on to God’s promises during a very difficult time and season in my life, encourage you to go back and listen to that one because everything that I went through in part one of my testimony, I recognize now how God used that to build my faith and used that to build my trust in Him Welcome OCD warriors to the Christian Faith and OCD podcast, where we are all about reducing shame and stigma of struggling with OCD as a Christian, sharing hopeful stories, and replacing uncertainty with faith as you develop practical tools for greater peace.

I’m Carrie Bock, Christ follower, wife, mom, and licensed professional counselor in Tennessee. I pray you are blessed by today’s episode Even though I was a Christian for a long time before this point that I’m gonna share today, I don’t think I really trusted God very well. I was definitely more on the control freak side, which I know a lot of you can relate to.

It’s like I kinda want things my way, and I think that even bled over into my spiritual life because it’s like, “Hey, God, I have this good idea, and I would like this, and it’s not a bad thing.” I talked about that last week. “Can you just fulfill this prayer request, please?” What I’ve had to learn through spiritual maturity over the years is that God knows way better what I need than I actually do at the time, and ultimately, He’s weaving a story that I can’t see.

I’m in the middle of the story. God knows the beginning, the middle, and the end, and I only know the beginning and the middle of where I am right now. I don’t know how things are going to play out. As you know from any good story, whether it’s a TV show, a movie, or a book that you’ve read, things can get really dicey in the middle.

Because it’s a story, you’re like, “Okay, I’m expecting there to be some happy ending.” Now, they may or may not write the happy ending in there for you. Sometimes your favorite character dies, and that really stinks, and you get annoyed that they got booted off the show. But the point is that we, in our own lives, somehow we don’t hope for that positive ending.

We’re like, “Oh, no, it’s forever gonna be terrible. I’m gonna be miserable.” I would just like to remind you that God is the author of all good things and stories, and He’s the one that gave us creative abilities to even create those types of stories and movies and TV. God is the ultimate author, and if you’re in the middle of your story, just know God’s got a plan here.

I left off last week with marrying my husband, Steve. That was just a beautiful story. We had a COVID love story. We got together and started dating, like, right before the COVID-19 pandemic and just kind of made a decision that we were gonna continue dating through that and decided that that’s what we wanted to do.

If you’re super interested in our love story, you can go back and listen to episode 10 where I talk about anxiety through the dating process. We also have episodes on our first and second year of marriage that might be interesting to you as well. We can link all of that in the show notes. I try to drag Steve on around our anniversary every year, and we do some type of, like, marriage episode together.

Even if you’ve been around and you’ve heard some of those episodes- There’s still gonna be new information in this episode because of the way that I’m laying out the story, and when you’re going through some things, there are specific edits that you make and maybe don’t wanna share right away. Now that we’ve had some distance, it’s a little easier to share the coherent narrative.

Steve and I get married in October of 2020, and we make a decision that we’re not gonna start trying for children right away. We don’t quite want the honeymoon baby, so we’re gonna wait a few months. In June of ’21, he goes to the eye doctor. It’s supposed to be just kind of a routine appointment for him to get an update on glasses prescription The doctor tells him that she wants to see him back because she’s concerned about him running his finger along the wall.

At this point, we know that Steve has some issues with colorblindness and that he doesn’t have great peripheral vision, and that there are some issues with depth perception. The interesting thing about all of this is that my mother said, “This doesn’t quite make sense. Do you have some type of syndrome?”

And my mother was coming from a place of working at an eye clinic for years, like 30 years by the time she retired. Because of the specificity of the types of patients that she saw, I’m not sure that she had seen a case quite like Steve’s before. So Steve always says, “Your mother knew at first. She knew there was something more going on.”

This one eye appointment leads to a cascade of specialist visits over the next year. But we find out approximately a month later, “Hey, I’m pregnant. Here we go.” So I’m newly married, pregnant, and my husband is taking off work to get MRIs on his brain, on his eyes, to go through six hours of testing at Vanderbilt Neuro-Ophthalmology.

For the most part, we’ve had really good providers through Vanderbilt, except for the very first one at Neuro-Ophthalmology. It was an absolutely awful experience, and when you’re in a specialty field, you don’t exactly have a whole lot of options. I do really feel like they dropped the ball as well because the eye symptoms that my husband has, some of them are very classic to his disease.

After the six hours of testing, all they could really tell us was that he had lost vision and that he had optic atrophy on his right eye. I had to essentially Google all the words I didn’t know in the medical record after the fact to really get any information out of this doctor about what he knew that was going on.

Steve is working at this time, but he’s having a lot of troubles. He is dealing with double vision, where he’s trying to read insurance cards at a medical office, and he’s having a hard time. He’s taking a nap every day at lunch. He’s coming home with massive migraines from staring at a screen all day, and I’m just trying to survive pregnancy, which wasn’t that great in my experience After dealing with the morning sickness that really is an all-day sickness that nobody tells you is all-day sickness, and then dealing with back pain after that, I woke up in the middle of the night with my hands and my feet itching really badly, which is a strange symptom.

The only reason I knew to bring that up to my OB was due to a Facebook group I was on for pregnant women over 35. Someone else had the same symptoms, and people were telling them, “You have to tell your OB. That’s a symptom of ICP,” which is intrahepatic cholestasis of pregnancy. We’ll call it cholestasis for short.

Basically, it’s a liver condition that has to be monitored pretty closely because it can cause miscarriage or stillbirth. While Steve and I are elated about having our first child, there’s also an enormous amount of stress at this time. One thing I almost forgot to mention is that we ended up having to leave our church in November before Faith was born, so November of ’21, we end up leaving our church that we had been at because they chose to move couple cities away from where we were at.

We really felt strongly that this wasn’t a good move for us, even if the church felt like it was a good move for them to get a more permanent space. There were a whole lot of pieces that we didn’t share at the time that went into that. However, what I will say is that we lost our small group, our support system, at a really critical time as we were going through these health struggles and as I’m going through these pregnancy struggles.

I really don’t have the level of support that I need. One thing that I really wanted from God, and I was praying strongly about, was wanting to go into labor naturally. I didn’t want to have to be induced. I wanted to have a natural labor. That was a big desire of mine, and I was working with a doula on all the strategies as far as that goes.

I did an episode way back when on my labor, if you wanna go listen to that story. However, that was a very critical point of surrender in terms of learning to trust God with this uncertainty. It was either 35 or 36 weeks that I was diagnosed with preeclampsia on top of the cholestasis. My OB said, “You’ve got these two high-risk pregnancy conditions.”

I’m dealing with high blood pressure, where they had to send me over to the hospital for one of the visits, and then they ended up sending me home. But she said, “You know, I really recommend that we go ahead and induce you because I don’t want anything to happen to you or the baby.” I left that appointment.

I went straight over to a prayer chapel of a church that we had been attending for a little while. We didn’t end up staying there or landing, but it was a bit of a respite while we were trying to figure things out. I got in the prayer chapel and just lost it. I mean, I was crying at God. I was mad at God.

I was like, “This was one thing I wanted, Lord. I really wanted to go into labor naturally. I did not want to have to be induced.” It makes it harder to have a natural labor due to the medications they use. I was so mad at God. Like, “Why can’t you just give me this one thing? Our whole world is a mess right now.

There’s so much going on. Can you just allow my daughter to come into the world on her own terms and not have to be evicted?” Steve and I are faced with this huge decision together of do we go ahead and have the induction for the safety of our child and myself, or do we hold off? What do we do there?

Because certainly, even though the doctors were making recommendations, it was still our choice. I was praying through that process. I’m mad at God, and I’m crying, and I’m just so naughty, and it’s a mess. I’m the only one in there because it’s the middle of the day, and everybody else is working. At some point, I just surrender and say, “Okay, that’s it.

Your will be done.” I don’t know what’s gonna happen here. I really just want to make sure that my baby lives and that everything is okay, and I’m choosing to trust you that if you’ve brought us this far, that we’re gonna come out with things going okay. Now, up to this point, she had always done fine as far as, like, the ultrasounds and things like that.

I wasn’t super worried, but I was a little bit worried taking her out at 37 weeks. I was concerned that she wouldn’t be able to breathe and would have to go in the NICU. To condense a very long story, we end up making the decision to go for the induction at 37 weeks to still go for the natural labor, and I made it.

I survived. Faith survived. She came out really well. She didn’t have to go to the NICU. Everything was great, except for maybe the contractions. Those weren’t so great. But anyway, this whole episode that I was mad at God for allowing me to go through ended up being a huge milestone of faith in my life, and I can look back and see that now to say, “Okay, I surrendered and I trusted God that things were gonna be okay in this situation, that we were gonna make it through, and that Faith was going to come out ultimately okay in the end.”

It was like, if God can get us through that piece, then whatever’s happening with Steve’s health that we still don’t have answers for, He can get us through that piece, too. Due to a variety of factors, we had such a hard time trying to find childcare for Faith as I was getting ready to go back to work, and I had started pretty early on in my pregnancy, was on a bunch of waiting lists, but nothing was coming through.

I remember sitting in the bed one evening, and I was holding Faith. Steve was next to me. And I just looked at him and I said, “Will you stay home with her?” I don’t know that he agreed to it that night. I think he said that would be hard, but he would think about it. I was essentially fully telehealth at this time, so I was still gonna be at home in another room seeing clients.

I will tell you that Steve was a five-star stay-at-home dad. It was also a blessing for him because he wasn’t having those massive migraines from staring at a computer screen all day. We knew that this would buy us a little bit of time to make a determination about whether or not Steve would be able to go back to work, or if he would need to go on disability.

But we also didn’t feel like we had a strong disability claim at this time. Meanwhile, we have our follow-up with the awful neuro-ophthalmologist, and I noted, “Hey, Steve is having some balance challenges, like when lights get turned off in a room, that’s really disorienting to him. If we go into a place where there’s really low light, that causes problems and makes it a lot harder for him to be steady, and he’s holding onto my shoulder.”

The doctor looks at me in his crude way of communicating and says, “Well, even blind people can balance.” Because before this point, we’re both really concerned that Steve is going blind. He’s lost vision. They can’t tell us why. They can’t tell us the process, the when. Did it happen gradually? Did he have some kind of eye stroke, but because it was peripheral, he didn’t notice?

We still to this day don’t know the answer to that. However, the original ophthalmologist said, “You need to go see a specialist because I think you have Leber’s disease.” It was super scary because people with Leber’s disease do go blind, most of them by the time they’re fifty, and my husband is in his late forties at the time.

At this juncture, we realize that Steve really needs to be in regular neurology, not just neuro-ophthalmology. Regular neurology led to specialty neurology, and by the time he got to specialty neurology, they knew exactly what he was dealing with. Fortunately, Dr. G at Vanderbilt is an incredibly compassionate human, so the delivery of Steve’s diagnosis, I think, was much different.

It was really scary. I remember being in the room, and they’re performing all of these tests on him, and one of the things they asked him to do was to walk heel to toe. And this is not something that you see anybody do in a normal day-to-day activity. Unless they’re getting pulled over for drunk driving or something like that, which had not occurred.

I’m watching my husband really struggle to put his heel to his toe, and then his other heel to his other toe, and I’m going, “Oh, no.” I don’t know what this means, but I just know it’s not good. There were other things they had him do that he was struggling with, like touch his nose and then touch their finger.

They watched him walk down the hallway. So Dr. G says, “Well, you have something called spinocerebellar ataxia, or SCA for short.” And I think we were both like, “What?” Like, what even is that? Like, we’ve literally never heard those words in our entire life. Like, what are you talking about? And I think this is one of the hardest things about having a rare condition, is that nobody knows when you say, “I have SCA.”

It’s actually very rare when you tell a medical professional that they know what that is. Now, occasionally, they will have run into it before. So it’s not like someone saying, “Oh, I have Parkinson’s,” or I have MS. People know what those things are. There’s a context in their brain for those conditions, and maybe I’ve known someone with this condition, or at least I know what the symptoms are.

I’ve seen a documentary about it on TV, et cetera. I know a famous person with it. I mean, I think that’s a huge one. This actually happened the day that Faith turned six months old. We have a six-month-old, and we’re being told, “Hey, you have this really rare diagnosis. Oh, and by the way, there’s no treatment and there’s no cure.

We just kind of like manage the symptoms.” What in the world? When you get a diagnosis like this, it sends you into all of the grief and loss feelings. Like there’s the initial shock, the denial, the anger, the sadness, the loss. What does this mean for us? We had landed in a church where people were incredibly gracious to us as we walked through this because shortly after Steve got his diagnosis, my mother passed away from pancreatic cancer.

All the grief in my experience internally got super confused. It’s like I didn’t have time to process the grief of the diagnosis because I had to process the grief of my mother. So I processed that grief and then like had to move backwards and process the grief of the diagnosis and what that meant for our marriage and family moving forward.

The loss of my mother was pretty sudden and very huge. She had gotten sick around the time that Faith was born, and when Faith was about four months old, she went into the hospital. We had gone down to Florida to see her. Unfortunately, she was mostly in the hospital for the three weeks that we were there staying with my parents.

And I told my mom I wanted to come down before things got really bad. I, I didn’t want to wait until you were dying to tell you how much I loved you and to really be here for you. And I’m glad that I had that time with her. The timing was really important for me, but it was just such a crazy time of having a four-month-old who’s being cared for by my husband while I’m trying to go in a room in my parents’ house, lock the door and see clients via telehealth and really be there for other people with stuff that they had going on, while at the same time I have all this craziness that I’m going on in my own life.

I was also trying to pick up extra work because my private practice hadn’t fully rebuilt after maternity leave. So we had some financial challenges, of course, because I’m trying to build back up. My husband’s not working. I look back and I don’t even know like how I got through that time. I mean, just the grace of God sustained us.

That’s the only thing that I can say because with all the stress that was happening, all of the unknowns One thing that stands out to me, though, and this might choke me up a little bit, is that I went to go visit my mom in the hospital, and she was like: “Will you get me my phone?” That she had plugged in.

And so I picked it up, and I noticed that she had been listening to a Mother’s Day episode that I did. This was before I had faith. I did a episode on hope for the not yet mothers, I think was what we called it, and it was just different people’s stories of infertility or adoption and just really beautiful stories that different people had shared.

Back when we were Hope for Anxiety and OCD, I would ask people to share stories of hope, and my mom was listening to this episode and I thought, “Well, that’s kinda weird.” But then I realized that in that episode I had given, like, this tribute to my mom in the beginning about how she was essentially the biggest fan of this podcast, and I don’t say that lightly.

We have little podcast cards and things, and Mom was always talking to people and saying, “Hey, do you listen to podcasts? My daughter has this podcast.” And she would hand out those little cards, like on the plane and other places. I can honestly say that my mom would be so happy at where things have gone with this podcast and the people that have been reached.

And Hebrews talks about how we have this great cloud of witnesses that has gone before us that’s passed through the heavens. And when I read that, I just think about my mom, because Mom just loved the Lord, and she was not shy about telling people about it, either. When she was in the hospital, I mean, she was talking to the nurses about Jesus.

And I thought this hospital was in God’s sovereign plan. That was my mom’s final mission field. My mom had gone to seminary in hopes of being an overseas missionary, and she didn’t ever do that. She married a pastor, stayed in the US, but my mom was very much a missionary in two ways, because she raised a daughter that started a podcast that reaches people in seventy-plus countries.

I haven’t looked at that stat recently. So if you’re a mom, just know that’s the highest calling that you could ever have. I really believe that, just raising disciples for the next generation for the Lord. And my mom was very much a missionary while she was here on Earth and in her final days in the hospital.

And talk about things that you don’t understand. Why? I don’t know. I don’t have an answer for that. I just know that God has given me peace and that my mom is no longer in pain. Pancreatic cancer is a horrible thing to watch somebody go through. And if you know, you know, they basically just waste away, and it’s very hard to see.

And my mom, of course, went through a lot of emotional struggles regarding, like, “Do I have enough faith for God to heal me?” There were very much things that she wanted to do and wanted to see still. I know that there were dreams that were unfulfilled for her. My daughter was actually, because of the induction, she was actually born on my mom’s birthday.

We did not plan it that way. That’s just kinda the way the calendar fell on her coming out at thirty-seven weeks. And so we had really just hoped and looked forward when that happened that, hey, you’re gonna be able to celebrate your birthday with Faith, and that’s so awesome. But unfortunately, that wasn’t in God’s plan.

She ended up passing away when Faith was about six months old. After Steve had gotten that diagnosis of SCA, around the same time, his balance really started to fail. He went from walking with a cane to then us having to get this stand-up walker contraption. He went for weeks of vestibular therapy, essentially to relearn how to walk, for his brain and his foot to connect together.

What he has is a nervous system condition. He had to stop driving. Once we got the diagnosis, we applied for disability. It was just such a hard road not knowing what was gonna happen. The therapist had told us at that time, “It’s not an if your husband ends up in a wheelchair, it’s a when he ends up in a wheelchair.”

Which was super scary. We did not live in a house that we could even remotely make accessible. And I remember just getting up at that time in the morning and walking the house before anybody was up and just saying like, “I trust you, God. I trust you. If I could trust you with bringing my daughter into the world, if I could trust you with the financial provision, with us being able to get disability incredibly fast,” which rarely ever happens if you know anything about applying for disability.

If I can trust God with bringing me a husband when things look very hopeless as a single person, then I can trust God with this. And that’s the point that I want to make with you is oftentimes we forget there’s so much in scripture that tells us, “Just remember what the Lord has done for you.” When the River Jordan stopped and the people walked across the river, Joshua told them, “Pick up a stone, and we’re gonna tell our children, we’re gonna remember that the Lord stopped the Jordan so that we could walk across and get into this land that God gave us.”

And I think that this is so crucial for us to be telling stories to our children, not just that, but to remember for ourselves, like how far has God brought you from where you started? If you’re in the middle of a storm, can you look back and see what God has done in your life and how He sustained you through some hard times?

That really helps us in the next hard season and is incredible in helping you deal with uncertainty and knowing that you can trust God. And I’m not here saying that I understand everything that’s happened to me. I don’t, especially with the mom stuff. We did not see that one coming. My mom had been incredibly healthy person.

She was the walker. She didn’t drink. She didn’t even drink soda. I mean, she was the vegetable eater of the family. We have no idea how she got pancreatic cancer and why she had to go so soon. So there are some things that we just have to surrender and say, “Okay, I don’t understand it. I’m not gonna understand it.”

But that doesn’t mean that God’s not good, and it doesn’t mean that He’s not sovereign. He is still in control, and He has a plan. Remember, He’s the author of the story. So we’re now almost four years past my husband’s initial diagnosis of SCA. All I can tell you is that prayer works, and we just believe that God has been incredibly good and gracious to us through the midst of this diagnosis.

Because there are so many different forms of SCA, it’s really hard for them to predict how things are going to go. We tried to get some genetic testing earlier this year to figure out if they could type what type he has, and nothing came back conclusive. There’s some more invasive, more expensive genetic testing that we just kinda opted to not follow through with right now.

What I can tell you is that Steve is walking better today than he was two years ago, definitely better than he was four years ago. He was wearing ankle braces, and he’s no longer having to wear those. He was using this huge standup walker because he didn’t have, like, the grip strength to use a regular walker and also was– really couldn’t quite use a cane all the time.

It was making him very fatigued. He’s now at a place where he’s been able to just walk on a regular basis, which is the best thing that you can do for SCA. And due to his walking and how he’s, like, slowly pushed himself over time, he now is just using the cane. We give all credit and praise and honor to glory to God for that, that he has what is considered a degenerative condition, but he’s doing really well and has actually somehow improved.

I can’t explain that to you other than the Lord is good. He still definitely has the vision loss and vision challenges for sure and deals with fatigue And other things as a result of his diagnosis, he’s started to deal with some memory issues as well that have become a little bit more prominent in the last year or so.

We just take things one day at a time. That’s just how we’ve had to live around here. We don’t catastrophize about the future. Steve actually has just an incredible outlook. I interviewed him about uncertainty on a past podcast episode. He just has to focus on what he’s able to do today. At the time of this recording, he came back from a trip to Germany with our church.

I was really nervous about him going on the trip to Germany only because our pastor hadn’t been before. This was a little bit of a scouting trip for them to figure out what would it be like to take a mission team back the next year, what kind of ministries could they help support the church in Germany with.

So I’m asking questions like, “How many stairs are there around? Do they have elevators? How much walking is going to be involved,” et cetera. They did end up walking more than they had anticipated, but it wasn’t actually the walking that Steve had the most problems with, it was the escalators. Apparently, Germany, where he went, they have a lot of escalators, and they don’t always paint the lines on them like they do in the US so that you can know kinda where to step on and step off if you have some vision mobility challenges.

There were a couple times pastor or someone else on the team had to grab a hold of him on the escalator, but overall, we’re just very thankful that he’s still able to go on mission trips, which he’s very passionate about. And I just believe that God will sustain him to do whatever work he has called Steve to do.

I can honestly say that the whole experience has helped me in terms of working with the clients that I work with that are dealing with OCD or dealing with trauma, dealing with other uncertainties, health challenges, relationship issues, to really teach people what I’ve had to learn of how to live in the present day by day, trusting in God that He’s gonna see us through whatever we go through in life.

I know that this isn’t gonna be the last hard season that we go through. Thankfully, we’ve been in a really good season for a while in our life. God has really richly blessed us.

With a beautiful church community that we’ve been at about a year. Our daughter is doing really well and just thriving in a small preschool environment. God is opening up doors for me to write a book for all of you about discerning between OCD and the voice of God. I am so excited about this. I can barely contain it.

I just see such a huge need for this book to be out in the world, and it’s coming from a place of love and burden that God has given me for the Christian OCD community. I think that you guys are just tough stuff, um, and that’s why I call you the OCD warriors, ’cause you’re fighting battles internally every day, and you deserve more resources for going through these times.

I hope and pray that this future book is another resource for all of you out there struggling. Please pray for me, as this project is nothing like anything else that I’ve ever done. But I did start a podcast, and I had no idea what I was doing there either, so it’s all okay. God bless you all. Thank you so much for being here.

We’ve got a couple exciting episodes coming up that I want to tell you about. This is the official end of our personal story summer series, but we are gonna be hearing next week about when autism and OCD overlap from Nicole Kruger. She’s been on the show before, so she is coming back to talk about autism and OCD, so that should be a great episode.

Then we’re also gonna talk about supporting your hormones naturally. This is for all the ladies. Ended up being a super interesting interview, so I’m excited to bring that one to you as well. Until next time, may you be comforted by God’s great love for you. Christian Faith and OCD is a production of By the Well Counseling.

This podcast is for informational purposes only, and should not be a substitute for seeking mental health treatment in your area.

234. Clinging to God’s Promises When Life is Hard: Part 1 of My Testimony 

Written by Carrie Bock on . Posted in Personal Testimony, Podcast Episode.

In this episode, Carrie shares Part 1 of her personal testimony, revealing the truths God taught her during one of the darkest seasons of her life and why those lessons still shape her faith today.

Episode Highlights: 

  • Why God’s promises became my anchor through divorce, grief, and unanswered prayers
  • How suffering exposed beliefs I didn’t realize I had about God’s character
  • What helped me keep trusting God when life didn’t unfold the way I expected
  • How counseling, community, and Scripture became part of God’s provision during heartbreak
  • Why God may be doing far more behind the scenes than you can see today

Episode Summary:

How Do You Hold Onto God’s Promises When Everything Around You Is Falling Apart?

There was a season when it felt like everything I had prayed and planned for was slipping through my fingers. My marriage was ending, the future I had imagined was disappearing, and I was left asking God questions I never thought I’d have to ask.

What carried me through wasn’t having all the answers. It was learning to anchor myself in God’s promises when my circumstances gave me every reason to doubt. Looking back, I can see how that season transformed not only my faith, but also the way I help others walk through suffering today.

Why Would God Allow Heartbreak After You’ve Tried to Follow Him Faithfully?

One of my biggest struggles wasn’t simply the pain. It was trying to understand how life could fall apart after I had sincerely tried to follow God. I had done what I believed He wanted me to do, yet I still found myself grieving a marriage, lost dreams, and prayers that seemed to go unanswered.

As painful as that season was, it uncovered beliefs I didn’t even realize I was holding about God’s goodness, His sovereignty, and what it really means to trust Him. Those lessons didn’t come quickly, but they changed my relationship with God in ways I never expected.

How Can You See God’s Provision When All You Notice Are Closed Doors?

In the middle of loss, it was easy to focus on everything that wasn’t happening. Foster care placements ended. Opportunities I desperately wanted never came together. Even simple decisions about my future felt overwhelming.

Years later, I can see that God was faithfully weaving together details I couldn’t recognize at the time. Some of the very things I questioned most became evidence of His protection, provision, and preparation for what was still ahead.

Where Does God Meet You When Grief Feels Too Heavy to Carry?

God didn’t meet me through one dramatic moment. He met me through counseling, faithful friends, Scripture that spoke to my heart in a new way, and countless reminders that He had not abandoned me.

Those ordinary moments became sacred. They reminded me that even when I couldn’t see what God was doing, He was still present, still working, and still inviting me to trust Him one day at a time.

Can God Redeem the Years That Feel Like They’ve Been Lost Forever?

There were seasons when I wondered if too much had already been lost. I questioned whether the years of heartbreak, waiting, disappointment, and uncertainty could ever have purpose.

Over time, God gently showed me that His story was far bigger than the one I had written for myself. Some of the promises I clung to in desperation eventually became reminders that He had been faithful all along, even when I couldn’t yet see where He was leading.

I hope you’ll listen to the full episode and hear how God met me in the middle of suffering, because my prayer is that you’ll be encouraged to keep trusting Him in the middle of your own story.

Transcript

 Welcome, OCD warriors, to the Christian Faith and OCD podcast, where we are all about reducing shame and stigma of struggling with OCD as a Christian, sharing hopeful stories and replacing uncertainty with faith as you develop practical tools for greater peace. I’m Carrie Bock, Christ follower, wife, mom, and licensed professional counselor in Tennessee.

I pray you are blessed by today’s episode. I’m gonna let you guys in on a little secret. The top fear of anyone wanting to start a podcast is running out of things to talk about. Certainly, when you’ve had over two hundred episodes, like I have, you think, “I’ve probably covered everything by now,” which, of course, is not true.

There are many things to talk about, but also many things that maybe have been covered that could be talked about again in a different way. And that’s a little bit of what today’s episode is about. I decided I’ve been interviewing so many amazing people discussing their OCD testimonies, and I thought, “You know what?

Why not create an episode of where I’m at right now and what God has brought me through?” Revelation twelve eleven says that we overcome by the blood of the Lamb and the word of our testimony. So this is my testimony to you today. I thought, “What is one thing that I could share with people that has made perhaps the biggest impact in my life when I was going through hard times?”

And one of those things has been really clinging to God’s promises. Many years ago, I was listening to sermons on the radio by Pastor James McDonald. He had a sermon series based on his book called Always True. I remember in the very early period in between when my first husband decided that he was gonna leave and when we actually got divorced, obviously, that was a very challenging time, and there was a lot of uncertainty about how things were gonna progress.

I was definitely praying really hard that he would come back to the marriage, that he would be willing to put in the work and for us to be able to work together towards redemption. But I remember listening to the sermon series about God’s promises, and I got ahold of the book, Always True. At that point in time, I made a decision to say, “I am going to put my faith into action.”

I’m not just gonna say, “Hey, I believe these things about God.” Now all of my weight is going into these promises. In order to make it, I had to believe that God had not left me. I had to believe that God was not done working in my life. I had to believe that He was gonna work all things together for good As Romans 8:28 promises, when I was going through the divorce process, I had an immense amount of spiritual confusion because in my mind, with my logic, I said, “God, I wasn’t perfect, but I did some of the right things.

I hit the right check boxes. I married a Christian man I met at church. I saved myself for marriage. I was praying, reading my Bible, attending church regularly, serving in the church, going to small group, going to the church marriage events, reading books on how to become a better spouse.” I felt like, “How could I have done all of these things and it still go so horribly wrong?”

I followed the formula that everybody told me to follow. I did the things. We became foster parents. We were looking to adopt, believing that was what God wanted us to do in order to build our family. Now, I can look back and really see God’s hand and God’s providence in a way that I didn’t at the time.

When we were in the process of trying to adopt from foster care, we would keep getting these placements where DCS believed this one isn’t gonna go back, or their parents aren’t gonna do what they need to do, or they’re probably gonna end up needing to be adopted at some point or another, and that’s why they would place those particular children in our house.

And repeatedly, something would happen. DCS would lose in court. That actually happened on more than one occasion that I can think of, or the case would just not go the way that they had anticipated. Initially, when we lost our first foster placement of two girls, that one still to this day bothers me to think about and talk about.

I’ve done a lot of healing. I’ve done a lot of therapy around this. It was just tough because I thought, “You know, God, I’m not gonna understand this. I’m not gonna understand why you would bring these children into our lives to be able to love them as our own children, and then for them to be ripped away on a technicality and potentially go back into an environment where it wasn’t known if they were gonna be taken care of well or not.”

At the time, it felt like God was cruel. Really, I think I had that belief, and I just wanna say that very honestly. Like, all of our friends around us, they’re getting foster care placements, and they’re adopting their first placement. That happened to multiple friends that we knew, and for us, it just seems like they keep going back and keep going back.

And I thought, “Why in the world, God, are you allowing this? And now Of course, when I look back, I’m, like, thankful, and I see God’s mercy in that, that He foresaw and knew ahead of time the decisions that my first husband was gonna make, and was really saved from further heartache. Unfortunately, we did have two children at the time that he made the decision to leave, and there was no way that I could support them financially, physically, emotionally on my own.

My work schedule at the time was not conducive to single parenting at all. So I literally went from being– living as a family of four to now I have a house by myself, having to figure out, “How do I pay this mortgage, and how do I make life work?” Clearly, I wasn’t in a emotionally healthy headspace to make decisions at all, but they had to be made.

And one of the major decisions was, do I stay in Tennessee? Do I try to move home to Florida? Do I hang out with my parents for a while and see if I can get a job down there? What do I do? Do I sell my house and move into an apartment? Do I get roommates? God was just so gracious to me during that time that as I was looking at apartment options, I felt very strongly that it didn’t make any sense for me to sell the house and go into an apartment.

If I could just get a roommate or two, if I could do some refinancing, which I had to do anyway to get it in my name, that I could figure out a way to keep the house. When I prayed about it, I remember asking God, “Is it greedy for me to want to keep this house? And if it is, if I’m only keeping it out of greed, I don’t wanna do that.

I wanna be willing to lay it down and to let it go.” But I had already lost so much, and what God showed me in the process of praying about my heart and just the condition there was God showed me that I wanted to stay there because I felt safe there. I kinda knew what I was getting into ’cause I had lived in the neighborhood for several years at that point, and that was just a beautiful thing for me to feel peace about keeping the house, to say, “Yeah, if I move into an apartment, I don’t know if it will be safe or not.

I’ve haven’t lived there before. But here, I know the neighborhood, and I know the people next to me, and it’s a safe place to be.” As a single woman, I think it’s obviously very huge to feel safe in your own home, and I just so appreciate God guiding me and leading me in that direction to keep the house.

And also, just providing me with some roommates, even though I didn’t have the best experience ever with roommates, I also didn’t have the worst experience ever. Could’ve been a lot worse. I learned a ton from it. Definitely, if I had to have a roommate again, I would probably do some things differently, but like I said, God was just faithful, and I just see His provision through that whole process, that He blessed me by providing other people to live in my house.

But it was also, hopefully, a blessing to them as well to be in a safe neighborhood, to not have to be in apartment, to be able to go outside and hang on the back deck if they wanted to. God provided me with an incredible support system to get through this very hard time. God, I was already seeing a counselor.

I knew that things were not great in the marriage, although I didn’t know that he was interested in leaving I did know that he wasn’t interested in going to counseling with me, so I had gone myself and thought, “Well, maybe if I can work on me and work on communication from my end, maybe things will improve.”

So I went to counseling that first time after he told me he wanted to leave, and I know that the counselor just read it all over my face that things were not well at all. But I was thankful to God that I had that support system already in place, and I didn’t have to, on top of very stressful experience, now go try out counselors or find somebody that was gonna be the right fit to help walk me through that.

And I went to counseling weekly for probably two years at least. Was so beneficial to me through that period just to have a sounding board, to have somebody else who could help me navigate all of the different things that I was navigating and the emotional impact of some things that I hadn’t processed yet that had happened to me through that period.

I had had a very stressful, toxic work environment where they were, for whatever reason, vacillating between they loved me one week, and then next week they were writing me up and threatening to fire me, and I mean, it was literally that drastic, and that was just awful and toxic. I think it had a effect on my physical body, and it’s actually disgusting that those types of work conditions occur in the mental health field.

But unfortunately, I have heard from many other counselors about toxic work environments. There were certain criteria and things that we had to do and had to meet, some of which was completely outside of my control. I’d never worked in an, any type of work environment like that. There were so– There was processing of that happened in counseling, processing the grief of losing my foster children, losing my marriage.

Basically dreams that I felt like somebody might as well have lit a match and burned down the forest of my dreams, like it was just gone. Here I am, I’m like, “Okay.” My fertility is, like, clicking away day by day here. In my 30s, I’m not getting any younger, and I just share that ’cause I know so many people that I’ve talked to feel very similar, whether you had a broken engagement or a breakup, or you just have really struggled in dating.

Like, just know God still loves you and still sees you and cares about you, and He’s fully aware of your fertility, like, more than you are. There was a song on the radio at the time, and it was played a lot, called I Am Not Alone by Kari Jobe. It basically says, “You will go before me, and you will never leave me,” and that was really clinging to that promise of God has not left me.

Like, my husband that was here on earth, he’s left me, but God never left me, even though I didn’t understand how all of this could have happened to me. There was one time in counseling where my counselor said, “Do you think that your husband left you first or left God first?” And I was very easily able to say, like, “No, he walked away from God first,” and that’s how we ended up separated.

I think that provided me with a certain level of comfort. This period of time, God really showed me how sovereign He was because I had to come to terms with understanding that God’s sovereignty covers other people’s sins, that even if someone sins against you, whether that’s a parent, a spouse, a friend, whoever that is, that’s not gonna derail God’s plan for your life.

God still has good plans for you. He still cares about you. And also, that even, like, our own screw-ups and mess-ups and regrets, God is still sovereign over the sins of other people as well as our own sins. It’s really complicated. We can’t understand it on a human level. Don’t try to fully wrap your mind around that one But I know that I had to deal with a lot of regrets that I felt were things that I felt I should have done differently in the marriage.

I would lay up at night and be like, “Okay, well, maybe I should have asked to go to marriage counseling earlier,” or, “Maybe I should have done this differently. Maybe I never should have done that.” Or it could have been just the littlest things, and I questioned everything, like, where was the exact point that this went wrong?

If only I had done this, then maybe I could have saved my marriage. The reality is I just had to trust that God was in control and that He knew, that this didn’t catch Him by surprise. I got into a DivorceCare support group, and there were emails that you could receive from the DivorceCare folks. You would get an email a day for an entire year, and those were just sources of encouragement.

I needed people who had been there before I needed people who were devastated by divorce and felt like they couldn’t make their way back, but had survived and made it. I needed somebody that had the guide, and unfortunately, I had a lot of people in my life that had experienced divorce before, and it was like, “Oh, it was a good thing for them,” you know, was the message.

Like, I remember somebody at work being like, “Oh, that was just your starter marriage,” and I was like, “What in the world?” Like, we don’t have the same views on marriage. And even some other Christians that I knew, they were like, “Oh yeah, my ex-husband this or that,” and they were like, “Well, I married the wrong person,” or, “It didn’t work out,” and they didn’t have the same level of devastation that I had.

But when I got in this DivorceCare support group, there were a few other women that were in the exact same boat that I was in. They had not had children, but wanted to have children. Most of them had been left by their partner. They weren’t the ones that initiated the divorce. They didn’t want the divorce.

They felt like a lot of their dreams had died in that process. These were the people that I was like, “They get it.” Like, they understand. The leaders of that DivorceCare group were really helpful because they had some time and space away from their divorce and were actually able to see how God worked in a positive way through it coming out in the end.

It was helpful to hear some of their stories and their encouragement and knowing, like, how much they cared about us. One thing that was interesting about going through DivorceCare was I was so ashamed of my divorce that I was like, “Oh, gosh, this is a scarlet letter on me for the rest of my life. I’m a bad Christian because I got divorced.

Here I am, I’m a pastor’s kid with a divorce on my record.” I mean, just so much shame. I couldn’t even go to DivorceCare at my own church. My church had DivorceCare, and I went somewhere else. I went to another church where nobody would know me because I just needed to pop in there and be anonymous. And I think even that decision, like, I thought, “Oh, I’m making this decision,” but I can just see how God even directed those steps so that I would meet the people that I met that I might not have met at my church, even though I could have had a positive experience there.

Oftentimes, when you’re going through something and you’re in the middle of it and you’re in the thick of it, you’re really blinded to God’s goodness in your life. And so if you’re going through a hard time right now, I just want you to stop and look around and find anything that’s good that you can cling and hold onto.

There was a day where I read James 1:17, and it said, “Every good and perfect gift is from above.” And that changed my life, that verse, recognizing that. And I was going through some depression ’cause of everything that was happening. I got on Prozac for the first time in my life and just made the decision that I needed to function, and that it didn’t mean I had to be on an antidepressant forever, but that I was going to take The help that was available to me, and that was something that was recommended by my counselor, but I had already been thinking about it ahead of time.

And I just looked out and I was like, “Okay, what’s good about today? It’s sunny. It hasn’t been sunny in a few days. That’s good. That’s a gift from God. Thank you, God. I am driving a car that I have to get to and from work. Thank you, God.” It didn’t matter that the car was barely past emissions. I’m like praying, “Dear God, please let the check engine light go off this car so that it will pass emissions.”

I don’t know what happened, but God answered that prayer. I think it may have had to do with some weather changes, but thank you, Lord, my car passed emissions. We don’t have that anymore in, in Middle Tennessee, but my car passed, so I didn’t have to get further repairs on it. It was some glitch with the light anyway.

I can look back now and see God’s grace. The year that my divorce was finalized, I got out of the toxic job. God opened up a door just very randomly. I did not know this guy. I saw an ad that he placed that he was looking for counselors to join his group practice. I stayed with him a couple years before starting my own practice.

That was just a gift from God at that time, and I don’t even know that I fully recognized it because I was working so hard since I was starting out and I didn’t have a full caseload of clients or anything of that nature. It takes you time to get on insurance. There’s all these things that had to happen for me to get set up and established.

I had the most random income streams ever. I was combing lice out of kids’ hair. I was grocery shopping for people. This was way before COVID, before Walmart had delivery and Kroger had delivery and all that. You didn’t have all that. It was Shipt, that was it, and you had Shipt that you could get for Publix orders initially.

That was, I think, all you could get was Publix. And so I learned how to fly through Publix pretty quickly, put a bunch of groceries in the cart that people wanted, and deliver them to their house. And everybody was like, “What is this Shipt thing?” ‘Cause they would see me in a store with my shirt, like, “What is that about?”

Of course, no one knew at the time that COVID was gonna happen several years later and the whole thing was gonna explode and a slew of people would be getting their groceries delivered. One day very early on, I was wrestling with this fact that I was leaving a job, a W2 job, where I had paid time off, I had benefits.

It was scary because I had the consistent income and now I was gonna be fully self-employed. I went to do the grocery delivery and I was– I delivered like 12 orders that day. Ended up just at the end of the day going to a mall. I was in a department store and there was… Looking at jewelry. I don’t even know why I was in here doing this.

I think it was just one of those things where you don’t quite wanna go home yet because you know home’s gonna be empty and nobody’s gonna be there. Except for you and the cats. And I found this ring, and on the ring, this was not a Christian store by any means, it was like a normal department store, and it said, “If God brings you to it, He will see you through it.”

Every time I would look at that ring, whether I was combing lice out of kids’ hair, whether I was delivering groceries, whether I was getting ready to sit down and meet with a client, I was reminded that God is with me in this hard season. He’s gonna get me through this. Philippians 1:6 is an incredible verse because it says, “He who began a good work in you will be faithful to complete it.”

If you’re going through a hard time right now, even if it’s a hard time that you feel like you caused because of your own sin or your own mistakes, just know that God is not done with you yet. I know that some of you are wrestling with things like, is God good? Can I trust Him? Does He really love me?

Does He see me? Does He care about my plight? Does He wanna heal me? Does He want to restore me? These were all things that I had to learn through the hard season of suffering. It was there that God met me in a deep and powerful way and ministered to my soul in ways that I couldn’t even explain.

Suffering will– really has the potential to change your theology for the good. Another verse that I clung onto was Joel two twenty-five, which says, “I will restore the years the locusts have eaten.” I felt like years had been stolen from me, years where I could have had a child or had been parenting children, years where I wish that my career path had gone differently at the time.

When I was in this toxic job, I just couldn’t understand why God was not releasing me from that, why He would not open up other doors for me. What I can tell you now is that God was preparing me. God was preparing me for working with really challenging individuals that had a lot of complex issues going on.

I wouldn’t feel the confidence and the comfort that I do in handling certain client situations had I not had all of that experience of working with really challenging children and adolescents. As hard as it was, it was the best school for me. I also had access to some incredible trainings during that time.

I was able to get trained in EMDR for pretty cheap. I think that my work may have paid part of it for one thing that I went to. I can’t remember. But I know that I did not pay the full amount. I may have gotten some type of scholarship or something to go. So while it was incredibly hard, there were blessings on the other side of it.

There have been so many times in prayer where I’ve gone to the Lord and just been like, “I don’t understand, God. Why can’t you just give me this one thing that I want?” Whatever that thing is, it’s not a bad thing. It’s not bad for me to wanna be out of a toxic job environment. It’s not bad for me to want to be a mom.

It’s not bad for me to want to no longer be a single person and find someone to join my life with who’s gonna understand where I’ve been. Like, I don’t get it. Why won’t you just give me the thing? What I’ve learned over time and experience is that God cares enough about us to give us what we need, not always what we want, ’cause those are two different things.

My daughter will come to me sometimes, and the thing that she wants at that moment, whether it’s to stay up later, whether it’s to eat pure sugar instead of her dinner, whether it’s to skip out on a bath that she desperately needs ’cause she’s dirty Like what she wants isn’t always what’s best for her.

There are times where I just need her to trust that I know what’s best for her and that I love her, and that I’m not withholding any good thing from her, that if I’m not allowing her to have something, that there is a reason for it. I can see that now with God so much more than I could when I was a younger Christian.

I just didn’t get it. I believed a lot of lies of the enemy, just to be honest with you. I believed lies that maybe God was unhappy with me, maybe I wasn’t living up to His standards, and that’s why these things were going wrong in my life, or that’s why I was experiencing this suffering. I thought, “Yeah, I know that God loves me,” but I didn’t always trust that He had good for me or that He had my best interests at heart Four years later, I met my husband now, Steve.

I can honestly say God knew exactly what I needed. He did restore the years the locust had eaten. We got married in late 2020, got pregnant in ’21, and had our daughter, Faith, in 2022. I’m going to take some more time next week to share part two of my testimony. That’s probably the part of the testimony that more of you are familiar with.

Next week, I will start you off with some pregnancy complications and then probably the craziest year of our lives with so many different things happening right after Faith was born. I don’t know where you are on your OCD journey. If you feel like you are in a mess right now and don’t feel like you’re ever gonna be able to get out of it.

When you’re in the middle of a really hard season, you feel like it’s always gonna be this way, and you just wonder if there’s ever a light coming at the end of the tunnel. And part of the reason we do this podcast is just to give people hope. That’s just a huge mission behind the show. I also want you to know that the devil is a really good liar.

That’s about the only thing he’s really good at, and we are here to promote the truth of God’s character in scripture, that the devil causes people with OCD to doubt. Even people obviously don’t have OCD still struggle with lies, as I shared just throughout my testimony of different times where I felt like God didn’t care deeply about what I was going through or God seemed to be putting me through things that were cruel.

I wanna wrap this up by just letting you know that you can trust the promises of God, that He’s never gonna leave you or forsake you, that He loves you regardless of your past or present, what’s going on, regardless of your sins. He’s faithful to forgive. God has not given up on you. He’s gonna finish the good work that He started to make you more like Jesus.

If you are a follower of Christ Whatever suffering you’re experiencing right now, God promises that He’s gonna use that for good. I know it looks bad. You’re thinking there’s no way anything possibly good could come out of this, but I am living proof to tell you that God has used my sufferings for good.

And so I know that if He has used these things for good, that He can use them for good in your life. It doesn’t mean that you have to go on tour with your testimony of OCD recovery. But what it does mean is that God may be using this in your life right now to shape your character, to cause you to be a more compassionate person, to cause you to be more dependent on Him, to shift your life in a direction that maybe it wouldn’t have gone before had you not had OCD.

I don’t know. Maybe there’s people that you’re supposed to encounter. I don’t know for your particular story. I just know that God is working behind the scenes, and He’s weaving something good and beautiful, even if you can’t see it right now. So stay hopeful, be encouraged. God loves you, and I’m so glad that you’ve hopped on to listen to this podcast today.

If you enjoyed hearing some of these personal stories, definitely sign up for our newsletter because they get first dibs on all the stuff that’s happening in the Bock world, just little insights and devotional pieces that I feel like things that God is showing me and that I wanna pass along to you guys.

So definitely go to carriebock.com and sign up for our weekly newsletter. Until next time, may you be comforted by God’s great love for you. Christian Faith and OCD is a production of By the Well Counseling. This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be a substitute for seeking mental health treatment in your area.

Looking for an Alternative to ERP - Find out if ICBT is Right for You - Carrie Bock

133. Looking for an Alternative to ERP? Find out if ICBT is Right for You

Written by Carrie Bock on . Posted in Counseling, OCD, Podcast Episode.

Carrie discusses Inference-Based Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (ICBT) as a helpful option, explaining how it differs from ERP in addressing OCD symptoms and integrating faith perspectives. 

Join her as she explores ways to find peace and faith while managing OCD through these therapeutic approaches.

Episode Highlights:

  • The principles of ICBT and its approach to mental compulsions.
  • The importance of respecting someone’s faith in OCD treatment.
  • Common misconceptions about OCD treatment options and their effectiveness.
  • Practical tips for considering ICBT over traditional ERP methods.

Episode Summary:

In this episode of Christian Faith and OCD, I discuss an alternative to Exposure and Response Prevention (ERP) called Inference-based Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (ICBT). While ERP is the gold standard for treating OCD, it’s not always the right fit for everyone. Some find ERP too overwhelming or not trauma-informed, especially those dealing with co-occurring conditions like PTSD. ICBT offers a different approach, focusing on challenging the obsessional doubt at its core rather than just managing the anxiety it produces.

ICBT helps you recognize that OCD weaves facts with imagination, creating a story that feels all too real. By identifying the crossover point where you shift from the present moment into this imagined scenario, you can begin to break free from the cycle of obsessions and compulsions. What I love most about ICBT is its focus on the “feared self” versus the “real self.” The feared self is who OCD tries to convince you that you are or will become, but it’s a false identity. ICBT helps you reconnect with who God says you are—loved, valued, and free.

If you’re wondering which therapy is right for you, it’s essential to choose the path that aligns with your needs and challenges. Both ERP and ICBT require dedication and hard work, but the reward is a life of greater freedom and peace. Remember, you are stronger than you know, and you can overcome the struggles of OCD with the right support.

Thank you for joining me today. If you found this episode helpful, I’d appreciate it if you could leave a review on iTunes or Apple Podcasts. Your feedback helps others find our show and begin their healing journey. Until next time, may you be comforted by God’s great love for you.

Explore related episodes:

148. Your Obsessional Story: Christians Learning ICBT coming Jan 2025! 

74. Exposure and Response Prevention (ERP) and NOCD with Stacy Quick, LPC

Transcript

Hello and welcome to Christian Faith and OCD with Carrie Bock. I’m a Christ follower, wife and mother licensed professional counselor who helps Christians struggling with OCD get to a deeper level of healing. When I couldn’t find resources for my clients with OCD, God called me to bring this podcast to you. With practical tools for developing greater peace. We’re here to bust through the shame and stigma surrounding struggling with OCD as a Christian, sharing hopeful stories of healing and helping you replace uncertainty with faith. I’m here to help you let go of the past and future to walk in the present abundant life God has for you.

Let’s dive right into today’s episode. If you haven’t heard, we are running a freedom from mental compulsions challenge on August the 5th at noon central time. You can sign up at www.hopeforanxietyandocd. com/challenge and we’re going to be giving away some cool stuff like free coaching with Keri, and maybe some coffee gift cards thrown in there.

You’re not going to want to miss it, so I will see you there. Welcome to episode 133. Have you been looking for an alternative to exposure and response prevention, ERP? I know that this is an important thing that many individuals with OCD are looking for. Maybe you’ve had a bad experience with ERP. Maybe it just feels too big or too overwhelming or too scary to do.

Maybe you’ve heard stories from other people and don’t feel as comfortable with the therapy. Well, today we’re going to talk a little bit about exposure and response prevention and then talk about ICBT as a potential alternative. I don’t want you to get stuck on black-or-white thinking, like one of these therapies is right, one is wrong, one is better, one is not better. Both of these therapies have been researched and are evidence-based treatments for obsessive-compulsive disorder. Both therapies have helped people heal, so we’re not in the interest of putting one above the other. We’re just letting you know that there are options out there that some people in the OCD community don’t know about.

What is exposure response prevention? This is a behaviorally based therapy. that focuses on developing a treatment hierarchy, things that you are avoiding due to OCD, things that you fear engaging with, and then you develop exposures, gradually exposing yourself to the things that are scaring you in order to overall reduce the anxiety, decrease the compulsions because you’re engaging in the activity.

You’re feeling the anxiety and you’re not engaging in the compulsion. It’s a way to retrain your brain so that when you encounter those things in the future, the triggers, you know, okay, this is OCD. I’m fully aware of what it is. It’s very uncomfortable, but I can sit with this and not engage in the compulsive activity.

Exposure and response prevention is referred to by the International OCD Foundation, among others, as the gold standard for OCD treatment. We’ve talked more in depth about ERP on the show. You can go back and listen to episode number 74. with Stacey Quick and episode 111 with Judy Lair, who both talk more in depth about what exposure and response prevention is and how it can be helpful for OCD. Both of these individuals work for NoCD, which is a online therapy group, and NoCD specifically hires therapists and focuses on using strict ERP as their main focus of treatment. Like any large online therapy practice, it really depends on the therapist that you get connected with and whether or not you have a good connection or relationship as far as what your success may or may not be.

If you’re going to be doing hard things, obviously feeling comfortable with the person you are doing those hard things with is really important. This is true for any type of therapy, not just ERP. I have a much older episode about ERP not being the only treatment for OCD where I talk about utilizing EMDR to really get down to the core fear and the inadequacies that people feel about themselves to create a sense of healing and that as we treat the trauma and those core fears that a lot of times the OCD symptoms would go down. I definitely need to update that episode now that I am engaged with doing more inference-based cognitive behavioral therapy, or ICBT, as we’re going to call that. This episode has been pretty popular. People have searched and found it on Google because they’re looking for alternatives to ERP. If this is the gold standard, then we have to ask ourselves, why are people looking for alternatives?

There’s several different reasons for that. ERP is effective, but it’s not perfect. I’m a therapist. I can tell you that no therapy is perfect. EMDR is not perfect. ERP is not perfect. ICBT is not perfect. This is why therapists often use multiple modalities of therapies with their clients in order to help them find the greatest level of healing. That would make you a somewhat eclectic therapist if you’re using multiple therapy modalities. When you get too stuck on one and try to pigeonhole everyone into the same type of therapy, I’ve probably done it myself, admittedly, then you run into all sorts of problems because people are complex beings and they come in with complex presentations.

One quarter of individuals who meet criteria for an OCD diagnosis also meet criteria for a PTSD diagnosis. There are times where ERP is not always trauma informed. It may exacerbate PTSD symptoms. I’ve had this happen with clients who saw a prior therapist to myself, and they were really just kind of encouraged by the ERP therapist of like, hey, well, this is a treatment for OCD.

We’ve got to keep doing this. We’ve got to keep going down this road, and unfortunately, they may have failed to look at the entire clinical presentation of that individual. Another reason people are looking for alternatives to ERP is that it’s hard. The reality of sitting with all of these uncomfortable anxieties, emotions, fear, body sensations that come up connected with that, it’s hard, and a lot of people end up dropping out of the process.

Just as ERP is at times not trauma-informed, it can be depending on the therapist. At times, it’s not religiously sensitive. I’ve also seen cases of this and that’s highly unfortunate because the International OCD Foundation has a great page on their website about religiously sensitive exposures.

They’re also very open and focused on working with clergy of a variety of different faith communities to help people who are dealing with scrupulosity or religious obsessions be able to get the best care and treatment possible. Let’s say that you’re doing ERP and maybe you cannot find a Christian therapist in your area who does that.

You may want to ask if that therapist would be willing to connect with your pastor to help you create appropriately religiously sensitive exposures so that you’re not feeling like you’re going against your faith by engaging in treatment. That is not what any ERP therapist would want you to do.

Another potential issue with ERP is that it can be harder to target mental compulsions. This is where I feel like ICBT has an edge over ERP. If you are targeting mental, like, worst-case scenarios, a lot of that’s imaginal exposure, where you’re having to write imaginal scripts and read those over and over.

A lot of times you’re writing down things that are not true about yourself, things that are not true about God. Some Christians struggle sitting with those things, to be quite honest, and I would be as well if I was the one having to engage in that type of therapy. The goal of that imaginal script is to retrain your brain to recognize that it doesn’t have to have a hold on you, and it doesn’t have to continue to create anxiety. You are sitting with the anxiety and essentially making it boring. I find that sometimes people end up playing whack-a-mole with their symptoms, doing a lot of different exposures over a variety of different themes, but they’re not really getting at the core fear. This is something that I feel ICBT does a little bit better job of.

Before I really knew about ICBT, like I said, I was using a lot of EMDR to really help people drill down what is it that you are really, really afraid of. Not just, I’m afraid of getting sick or I’m afraid of getting somebody else sick if I touch this doorknob. But. Like this deeper level of that, that deeper layer might be something like, I’m going to get so sick that I won’t be able to take care of my children and my family and other people will suffer.

At its core, exposure and response prevention is focused On feeling the anxiety, not engaging in the compulsion. So they’re focused on that piece of the equation. ICBT is different. It focuses on recognizing that the obsession is really irrelevant to the present moment right now. So if you resolve the obsessional doubt than you resolve the need to engage in the compulsion.

There are 12 modules to ICBT, so obviously it would take a long time to go through each of those modules. That’s another plug to join us in the workshop on August 5th where we’ll be able to talk about this more in depth. ICBT is based on the idea of inferential confusion. People with OCD overestimate possibility. They make irrelevant associations. They disregard sensory information, not just your five senses, but also your sense of self, who you are as a person. ICBT requires you to really slow down and focus on your thought process in a different way. It’s validating to a lot of my clients because it lets them know the obsession isn’t just coming out of nowhere.

There are reasons that you’re thinking these things that you’re thinking. It’s based on information that you know to be true that’s just a plain fact. Like germs are real. As a Christian, we have certain facts that we believe about forgiveness, repentance, salvation. Obsessional doubt may come from your own personal experience as well as hearing about the experiences of others, whether that’s people you know or whether it’s just another YouTube video you watched or something you read on Reddit.

What ICBT does is it helps you recognize that OCD is taking those facts and weaving them in with imagination to create a story. And this is not just any story, it is like a lifetime movie based on a true story that really sucks you in. and causes you to feel intense emotions, intense level of fear, even though nothing bad is happening right now.

ICBT helps you identify that when you get triggered, there is this crossover point from the present moment experience over into the imagination. And learning that crossover point helps you not to continue on with the obsessional story. But here’s my favorite part about ICBT. It causes you to look at identifying the feared self versus the real self.

The feared self is who you believe that OCD is telling you either that you are right now or that you’re going to become if you don’t engage in these compulsions. For example, someone may believe that if they don’t read their Bible enough, that means they are not a good Christian. Of course, reading your Bible enough is very relative.

I only read one chapter today, does that mean that I don’t really love God or don’t really care about Him? This belief system about self Whether it’s that I’m unworthy, not enough, that I’m going to harm other people, that somehow I have these, like, deep-seated desires to do things that are inappropriate.

That is a feared self, and it’s a false self. It’s not who you really are. Who you really are is who God says that you are. You are loved. You are valued. God wants you to have abundant life. God wants you to have joy. God wants you to have joy, even in the midst of difficult circumstances. You are a child of God. You are forgiven. You are free.

There are so many different things that I could say here about who you are in Christ. I encourage you to search the scriptures for those yourself. So let’s talk for a moment about, well, which therapy is best for me? How do I know? Here’s what I know. OCD recovery is no joke, okay? It’s hard either way. So whether you do ERP or whether you do ICBT, it’s going to be difficult. It’s going to require time. It’s going to require dedication. So choose your hard. You know what’s even harder? Living with unmanaged OCD symptoms that sucks the joy out of your life when God is calling you toward an abundant life with Him where there is joy and peace and freedom on the other side. I want you to know that whatever you choose to do to engage in, in your recovery of OCD, that you are strong. Stronger than you know. You can do hard things and I pray that you find the help that you need and the support that you need to be able to walk through these challenging times as you’re struggling as you know,

We’re in the process of of rebranding a bit and getting our website fixed. So until then, we are still at hopeforanxietyandocd.com or you can find me at my counseling practice, bythewellcounseling.com. Thanks so much for listening. Until next time, may you be comforted by God’s great love for you.

Were you blessed by today’s episode? If so, I’d really appreciate it if you would go over to your iTunes account or Apple Podcasts app on your computer if you’re an Android person and leave us a review. This really helps other Christians who are struggling with OCD be able to find our show. Christian Faith and OCD is a production of By The Well Counseling. This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be a substitute for seeking mental health treatment in your area.

The Rebrand Story of Christian Faith and OCD - Carrie Bock

Bonus Episode: The Rebrand Story of Christian Faith and OCD

Written by Carrie Bock on . Posted in OCD, Podcast Episode. No Comments on Bonus Episode: The Rebrand Story of Christian Faith and OCD

Join Carrie as she introduces the rebranded podcast, “Christian Faith and OCD. She shares the journey from “Hope for Anxiety and OCD” to the new focus, discussing the reasons behind the change, listener feedback, and the impact the podcast has had over the past three and a half years.

Episode Highlights:

  • The strategic decision to focus more on OCD and include “Christian” in the podcast title.
  • The significance of addressing scrupulosity and faith-informed therapy for OCD.
  • How Carrie found guidance through prayer and a Christian podcast coach.
  • Plans for the podcast, including practical resources for managing OCD
  • Upcoming webinar: The Freedom from Mental Compulsions Challenge

Episode Summary:

Welcome to a special bonus episode of Christian Faith and OCD! Today marks the beginning of our rebranding journey from Hope for Anxiety and OCD to Christian Faith and OCD. I’ve been hosting this podcast since the fall of 2020, and over the past three and a half years, we’ve seen incredible growth and transformation. However, earlier this year, I noticed a decline in our download numbers, which led me to reevaluate the podcast’s direction and purpose.

After much prayer and reflection, I realized it was time for a change. This rebrand focuses more intentionally on OCD, especially since our most popular episodes have consistently been those centered on OCD topics and personal stories. By adding “Christian” to the title, I’m ensuring that our content is clearly faith-based, which is crucial for listeners seeking spiritual guidance alongside mental health support.

Through this process, God has shown me the importance of sharing my knowledge and experiences directly with you, our listeners. While I love interviewing guests, I’m shifting towards more solo episodes to provide practical strategies for managing OCD from a Christian perspective. This rebrand also aligns with my passion for helping those with scrupulosity and other OCD-related challenges find peace and healing.

If you’ve been with us from the beginning, thank you for your continued support. And if you’re new, welcome! I’m excited to walk alongside you on this journey of faith and mental wellness. Don’t forget to join us for the Freedom from Mental Compulsions Challenge on August 5th, where we’ll dive deeper into how Inference-based Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (ICBT) can help you manage OCD.

Thank you for being part of this journey. Until next time, may you be comforted by God’s great love for you.

Transcript:

Welcome to Christian Faith and OCD with Carrie Bock, a licensed professional counselor in Tennessee. Some of you are wondering, did I hear that right? Yes, you did. Today is the day we are starting the process of going from Hope for Anxiety and OCD to Christian Faith and OCD. I’ve been alluding to rebranding for quite some time, and I wanted to tell you the story of how this process came about.

I have been hosting Hope for Anxiety and OCD since the fall of 2020. It’s been about three and a half years now. So many good things have happened. I’ve had Christians write to me expressing thanks that they were no longer afraid or ashamed to take medication, which is incredible. Several people wrote saying, Hey, I thought I had anxiety, but I listened to your show.

I started listening to the personal stories of OCD and realized, Hey, I think that’s me. I have OCD. Of course that was life-changing for them to have that knowledge. I’ve been able to meet people, and see people for counseling that might not have found me otherwise across Tennessee had it not been for the podcast.

I’ve even had people travel from out of state to do counseling retreats with me, which I talked about in a previous episode. That’s been amazing. But earlier this year, I noticed that our downloads were declining and I thought, okay, we’re really only producing an episode every other week. I realize that’s a slow pace.

I did that because of having my daughter being pregnant, and going through the process of having an infant. If you’ve been there, you know it’s a lot, okay? I took a little bit of a step back for the last couple of years while my daughter was growing up and recognized, like, this is a good time to go ahead and start putting out an episode every week.

So we started doing that a few months ago. What I didn’t know about the download decline was that it wasn’t just about people getting lost or dwindling away from listening to the show. It had to do with an Apple update where if you were subscribed to podcasts in Apple’s they would download for you.

People’s phones were filling up, they didn’t like that feature and Apple decided to Scrap that with an iOS 17 update, things are no longer auto download. What that means in the podcasting world is that we had a lot of false downloads. We were looking at statistics where maybe a bunch of episodes were downloaded, but people weren’t really listening or people weren’t really necessarily following.

Now all of our download numbers are more accurate picture of who’s actually Initiating that download and listening to the show as I was going through this process Recognizing like okay things had been going up and up and up for a while And then things had kind of leveled off and they were going down I prayed this prayer of desperation of God in late February saying I don’t know what I’m doing I’ve had this podcast for a long time over three years and I just need help.

I need to know Okay, God, what is my next step? What am I really doing here? And it was one of those pivotal moments where you’re like, okay, I’ve got to either keep doing this or I’ve got to stop. Like, it just felt like almost like there was no other option. Like, are we going to keep going? Can I still do this?

And I said, okay, God, if you want me to do this, you are going to have to send me some help to know how to make this podcast better and to grow this show. And. I was in the process and my husband and I were thinking about getting ready to move. I was listening to this organizational podcast. It was just organizing your house, different areas of your house.

I thought, well, this will be really great for me. As I’m decluttering, I’m getting ready to move. I’m thinking about how I’m going to want my house to be more organized when we move. That was a big push for me. Listen to this podcast, and she says something about her friend who’s a Christian podcast coach, and I was like, what, wait?

It was one of those moments where you said, did she just say that? Like, rewound for a few seconds, and I was like, “Oh, okay.” I wrote down the lady’s name, and God’s timing was so specific, she was just getting ready to launch her coaching program again, uh, for a six-month coaching program. I looked it all up online, and I said, okay, God, this is kind of expensive, but if you want me to do this, then you’re gonna have to provide the money because right now it’s not in the account.

Lo and behold, I received some money that I was not expecting. I brought the money into the business. I was able to buy the program and started really making some changes and revamping in that process. I talked to Steve about it. I said, what should I do? Is this okay to spend this money on this? What do you think?

He’s always been just incredibly supportive. Like I said, go for it. I think that this is what you need to do. God lined all of these different things up for you after you reached this breaking point and prayed about it. So here we are, and I started to look at the podcast with completely new eyes.

What were the episodes that you guys were listening to what was getting downloaded the most it just came down to the OCD episodes was a short answer, especially any personal stories related to OCD are probably our most popular episodes other than obviously a lot of people listen to the first episode to see Hey, what’s this whole podcast thing about?

Putting Christian in the title was very strategic because when you have a podcast called Hope for Anxiety and OCD, unfortunately, you get a lot of people contacting you, not realizing it’s a Christian podcast, maybe tuning in, not realizing, hey, we do talk about God and spiritual issues on the show. Unfortunately, we get a lot of what I call woo-woo requests, people that are like metaphysics crystals and some other stuff that I’m like, I don’t think so.

That’s not really what we do over here. Putting Christian in the title was very strategic for me. Focusing more on OCD was obviously very strategic, just in looking at the resources that you guys are looking for. I never would have started an OCD podcast three and a half years ago for a few different reasons.

One, there’s a little bit of an imposter syndrome being in this space speaking to these issues and not having lived experience with OCD. I would say the majority of people that I meet who treat OCD also have OCD. I know that that’s not always the case, but typically in cases of things like addictions.

Eating disorders, OCD, like very specialized areas. A lot of times people have some type of lived experience, either they’ve lived it or someone in their family has lived it. So for me, there is a little bit of an imposter syndrome saying I’m out here treating OCD and I haven’t had that specific experience.

I think that there are pieces of it that feel very relatable to me. The anxiety feels relatable because I’ve definitely had my fair share of anxiety in my life. The catastrophic thinking feels relatable. Perfectionism I can definitely relate to. I am a recovering perfectionist. I don’t consider myself a perfectionist now.

That’s something that the Lord has really worked with me on. It took a period of many years and lots of mistakes and lots of learning to be comfortable with not always doing things right, but praise the Lord I’m not there where I was before. So there are different pieces that I can consider that I can relate to, but I don’t have the lived experience that a lot of you guys have.

It was interesting because I talked with one of our recent guests that I did a personal story with about this, Crystal Probst, and she said it’s okay because one of her therapists that had a lived experience with OCD, she felt like understood her less than the therapist she saw that didn’t have the lived experience, and that was partially due to maybe different themes and different understandings that she felt like that person had.

The other reason I wouldn’t have started a podcast having to do with OCD three years ago is because I didn’t have a large client basis at the time that I started the podcast of OCD clients. Now that has shifted a lot since starting the podcast. I’ve been able to work with more clients with OCD, more clients that had a higher level of severity, and I realized that there’s a lot more help out there in general for Christians with anxiety than with OCD.

In the process of seeing more and more clients with OCD. It’s caused me to dig in a lot deeper, and gain even more knowledge, more training, more consultation with other counselors. I’m constantly learning new things and I’m constantly being challenged, but I enjoy that a lot. I think this intersection of Christian faith and OCD is so important because many people with scrupulosity feel like they’re dealing with a spiritual issue when actually what they’re dealing with is OCD.

So if they feel like they’re dealing with a spiritual issue, they don’t want to take that to someone who is not well versed in Christianity or doesn’t know the Bible. I also know there are significant struggles for Christians who are looking at exposure and response prevention therapy. Sometimes this therapy is not faith informed.

Some people do a really great job of being faith-informed and really knowing how to do sensitive exposures based on a person’s faith. There are therapists that aren’t Christian who are willing to work with your pastor or talk about it. What are the teachings or any of these exposures going against your belief system or would be inappropriate or disrespectful?

However, there are some other people out there that are potentially going kind of rogue. I hate to say negative things about therapists, but it’s just like any other field, there are some good ones and there are some not so good ones. Unfortunately, it’s hard sometimes for Christians to find helpful, appropriate OCD therapy where they feel like this person that they’re receiving help from has a strong spiritual background as well as a strong clinical background.

I know that it can be challenging for clients in ERP to write imaginal exposures. writing things that are not true about God and having to read those over or sit with them. I had a secular provider tell me that she’s recommended clients not pray for a time period. Someone else told me recently that they had heard about exposure of reading the satanic bible, which I don’t see as a religiously sensitive exposure.

These different types of things are coming up and I don’t say that to scare anybody away from ERP. There are some Qualified, healthy ERP trained therapists, we’ve had them on the show before, we’ve also had people on the show with personal stories who’ve received ERP and have had good experience.

Unfortunately, it’s just a mixed bag out there, and some ERP therapists are not trauma-informed. That’s unfortunate, since trauma exacerbates OCD symptoms, and 25 percent of people who are diagnosed with OCD also qualify for post traumatic stress disorder, or PTSD. That’s a good chunk. That’s a quarter of people diagnosed with OCD.

So that’s, trauma is something that has to be taken into consideration. This is one of the reasons that I have really latched on to ICBT therapy, inference-based cognitive behavioral therapy. For me, having a background in treating trauma, this is a much more trauma sensitive and trauma informed therapy treatment for OCD.

One thing that’s shifted with the show, if you’ve noticed and been listening over the last few months, is that this started out being primarily an interview show, and I do love interviewing people, I am gonna have more guests on, but I am transitioning this to a majority solo episode show with some guests sprinkled in who’ve had lived experience with OCD, Thank you Or professional tidbits to share with you guys.

Through this process of reworking the podcast, God has shown me that he wants to me to share with you the knowledge that I’ve learned and to use my voice to speak into the issues that you are all facing. I hear different things all the time, whether it’s from clients that I have, or people writing to me, or people that I’m participating in learning sessions with, and there’s so much that I want to share with you. And I want this show to be more practical tips for a lot of times. We’ve had a variety of different information. It’s a little bit been all over the place. Some people I’m sure have enjoyed that. So our tagline is practical strategies to greater peace. Because I want you to walk away with practical tools and guidance that you can get to have a healthier relationship with your OCD.

Ultimately, I would love for everyone listening to this to be healed, but I also know that just like some people have chronic health conditions, some people have chronic mental health conditions. That doesn’t make you less of a Christian, it is not your fault if you are struggling with OCD, but if we can’t get rid of something, sometimes we can have a different relationship with it.

I’ve seen this in my own life in terms of dealing with some back pain that I’ve had to deal with off and on for the last several years, uh, tailbone pain, and I have seen this in the life of my husband who has SCA, which is a neurological disorder. He’s an incredible testimony that God can still use you, even with your limitations.

He’s actually in Guatemala as this episode is coming out, um, and he’s ministering to children and teens there. I’m definitely so proud of him for that. Now I want to speak with some of you who are struggling with this change. Maybe you’re dealing with anxiety and you’re disappointed that I am focusing in on OCD.

I see you. I also know that some of this information, not all of it, but some of it is still going to apply to you. There are some of you with anxiety that are still googling too much. There are some of you with anxiety that are still dealing with whether you should take medication or not. There are some of you with anxiety that are catastrophizing and coming up with all kinds of worst-case scenarios.

While we might address that a little bit differently in terms of treating anxiety versus treating OCD, some of the information is still going to be relevant to you, and if you want to hang around and listen to it, you’re certainly still welcome to. I see this. podcast as a ministry and God has definitely blessed me by allowing me to be a part of what is now a worldwide ministry.

I would have never imagined that I would be the host of something that’s going out into all of the world. I did not see that coming at all, but I feel so thankful to each one of you who listen. I know that we have a cohort of people who Download our episodes week after week after week. So thankful for all of you.

Even if you just pop in and listen a little bit here and there, I am thankful for you. And know that if you do reach out and send emails and talk to us or communicate with us, I do read all of our emails. I look forward to what God is going to do in the future in and through this podcast platform.

Please join me on August the 5th for a free webinar, The Freedom from Mental Compulsions Challenge, where I’ll be talking with you more about how ICPT can be helpful specifically for mental compulsions, although certainly it works for physical compulsions as well. I’m going to be giving away some free coaching sessions, so I’m excited to be doing that.

The goal is for us to have fun and learn together. To sign up for the webinar, go to hopeforanxietyandocd.com slash challenge. That is one thing I forgot to tell you. Our updated website is in process. Right now, we are working on getting everything switched over to carriebhock.com. That’s a funny story within itself, because I always thought that people who had their own domain name thought a little too highly of themselves and probably swore I’d never do it.

But, it just makes most sense for people who are looking for me, for counseling services, or for the podcast. So, It’s not live yet, but you will know when it’s live if you sign up for our webinar or you get on our email list. Hopeforanxietyandocd. com slash and challenge. See you there. Hope for Anxiety and OCD is a production of By the Well Counseling.

Relationship Obsessions Combined with Scrupulosity Pierre's Story - Carrie Bock

131. Relationship Obsessions Combined with Scrupulosity: Pierre’s Story

Written by Carrie Bock on . Posted in OCD, Personal Testimony, Podcast Episode.

In this episode, Carrie shares Pierre’s courageous journey with OCD, exploring how childhood fears and religious teachings shaped his mental health struggles and eventual path to healing through counseling and faith.

Episode Highlights:

  • Pierre’s journey through OCD and the compulsion to replay past events.
  • The role of forgiveness in freeing Pierre from resentment and anger.
  • Pierre’s discovery of peace through trusting in God’s promises during anxious moments.
  • The power of grace in liberating from perfectionism and fear.
  • Insights into how faith and forgiveness can lead to personal and spiritual growth.

Episode Summary:

In this episode of Christian Faith and OCD, I’m honored to share the powerful testimony of Pierre, who has experienced both relationship obsessions and scrupulosity. Pierre’s journey began in childhood, with an early fear of sin and losing his salvation, which later developed into intense OCD symptoms. His story is one of struggle but also of profound spiritual growth and healing.

Pierre discusses how his fears initially took root when a family friend read a Bible passage about the sin against the Holy Spirit. As a child, this deeply impacted him, leading to a persistent fear of blasphemy and the loss of his salvation. These fears followed him into adulthood, manifesting as relationship obsessions and religious scrupulosity, including a deep anxiety about remarriage after his first marriage ended in divorce.

Throughout the episode, Pierre shares how his OCD journey intertwined with his faith, leading to a complex struggle between spiritual concerns and mental health challenges. His turning point came when he began to understand that his obsessions were not sins but rather a mental health issue. With the support of counseling, his wife, and a discipleship program, Pierre learned to renew his mind and reject the lies that OCD fed him.

Pierre’s story highlights the importance of understanding OCD from both a spiritual and mental health perspective. It’s a reminder that God’s love is constant, even in the midst of our deepest fears. If you’re struggling with similar issues, know that you’re not alone and that healing is possible.

Thank you for listening to this episode. If you found Pierre’s story encouraging, please consider leaving a review on iTunes or Apple Podcasts. Your feedback helps others find this show and begin their journey toward peace and healing. Until next time, may you be comforted by God’s great love for you.

Explore Related Episode:

118. How Do I know if this Thought is an OCD Obsession? with Carrie Bock, LPC-MHSP

Transcript:

Welcome to Hope for Anxiety and OCD episode 131. I am your host, Carrie Bock, a licensed professional counselor in Tennessee. On today’s show, we have a personal story of OCD from someone named Pierre. We’re not saying his full name on the podcast or sharing any images of him. For ministry reasons, I wanted to bring you this powerful testimony.

Pierre emailed me a while back about his story, and I thought, this is just It’s so powerful. People need to hear what God has done in his life.

Carrie: Pierre, tell me a little bit about your childhood experience and how OCD showed up for you. What did that look like? How did it all start?

Pierre: I don’t know where to start. I wasn’t a fearful child. I wasn’t really somebody who hid in the bed. I was a bit adventurous and I loved the outdoors and I wanted to play every kind of game, but where is when it started really as a child, we had a nanny, a family friend who just came when my parents were out and she would babysit. My brother and I, for bedtime, she would read the Bible to us, and I didn’t even know that it was not the same to do to read the adult Bible to kids.

She would read out of the page, and one night she just read along, and it came to the story of the sin against the Holy Spirit, which at the time, maybe I was eight or nine, I didn’t understand what was it about I just realized that something was off with those stories. Something I didn’t understand. 

I remember when the next day I left by my schoolmates going to school before me. A few seconds in the corridor before the teacher realized, and she grabbed me. I gave my life to Jesus just in case because having heard a story like this, that you can be in danger of hell, even as a child.

Carrie: So you were scared of God after hearing that story?

Pierre: I didn’t understand. What it was about, I just know it was bad. If I found myself in that situation, it was bad. So I wanted to be safe. I had the sense that I could potentially sleep or fall or lose my salvation or something like that, even at that age. I think that was something I carried with me. I had no idea that I could go to my parents and talk about it.

Carrie: Why was that? Were you afraid you’d get in trouble or you weren’t sure that they would understand what you were afraid of?

Pierre: They would not understand. They would not realize it was serious for me. And I had no idea that it would be just a thing to do. When you’re scared, you go to your parents because they’re important people in your life.

They would reassure you. They would explain things. That’s what I do with my own children now. Anything that scares them, I want to talk it over and make sure we’re on the same page. We understand exactly what’s going on and I don’t let it happen again.

Carrie: But there was some teaching in your church that you had told me, like, about emotions and therapy. So maybe there wasn’t this freedom to be anxious or be depressed or have other certain emotions.

Pierre: I grew up in a Christian family, so that’s absolutely fantastic. I even had the privilege of having my parents, my dad is a pastor, and his dad before him was a pastor, so that’s very good. And the flip side is also, I think, the sense that I had very young that I had to be very careful about my behavior in church and elsewhere.

I wasn’t really allowed to be rough and to keep the honor of the family. I would say, something like that. I was very serious about things I heard in church. That was always my belief that He’s a God and we need to be careful not to offend Him. So we don’t sin, we don’t do bad stuff, we don’t use bad language.

Things I discovered later on in life that I never knew, but that’s things you don’t do either. I would say my church has a Pentecostal background. I grew up in the older generation. When I was a kid, these people were still around. I understand now that they came out of the Great Depression and the Second World War period of time, when maybe there was an upbringing of not showing up emotions.

The phrase I heard a lot was put up a smile on your face. Whenever there is some problem in your life, you don’t talk about it, at least openly. You don’t share your struggles.

Carrie: So that makes sense, probably why you wouldn’t share things with your parents if you felt like it.

Pierre: Yes. I can’t really translate that in English, but something I heard is that a sad Christian is a liability to the church. You’re not sad. If you’re a Christian, you have to be joyful. You have to be crazy about God and everything goes well for you. Because the faithful are blessed or something like that.

Carrie: I think a lot of people still believe that today. Like if I’m a Christian, I’m supposed to have joy, I’m not supposed to be angry, that’s another one.

I’m not supposed to be mad, and I’m not supposed to be sad, just supposed to be happy, joy, joy, joy all the time, and that’s just not reality. Thankfully, we have a lot of Christians in the Bible who weren’t happy all the time and who did cry and who did express emotions and thinking, just thinking about David and the Psalms.

I don’t know how people justify those types of beliefs with scripture. When you shifted some of your beliefs on this later in life, I imagine, was that comforting to you to find those places in scripture where Elijah was depressed and David was really sad? I mean, was that kind of comforting like, Oh, you can be sad and be a believer?

Pierre: Now I know, but there was a time when maybe I was starting to develop what later became a full-blown depression. When I was reading the Bible, only the bad bits would jump at me from the page. I would read condemning verses or things that I wasn’t really expecting. And because I would read the Bible as if God is speaking to me, while he’s speaking bad stuff to me.

Apparently, something must be wrong, I must sin somehow and still have that background of, I can lose my salvation, I can fall from grace, you know, I must be very careful. So if I read something in the pages of the Bible that speaks negatively. Therefore, there is a chance that I need to check my track record of going to church, especially being on time.

That was a big thing. At the time, it was all about what you wear. You are a man, you have a suit and a tie. And if you’re a woman for some time, it would be head covering. A lot has changed in my church for the better, but until maybe 20 years ago, I still remember those things being strongly imposed.

Carrie: Did it feel like there were just when it came to God, there were just a lot of rules? Maybe you’re going to mess something up.

Pierre: One thing I also want to emphasize, it’s me, it’s my own understanding of things. Other people might have not viewed the same Bible. Versus the same way. And I changed my views over time also. And then I remember, and when it all started for me, I wasn’t even sure if I was allowed to go to therapy if it was not an extra scene on top of all the others.

So my dad was the pastor. He was very. Open for therapy. So I learned later on to really go to him and speak. That was a process.

Carrie: Sure. How old were you at that time where your dad encouraged you to go to therapy?

Pierre: I was 30 years old, nearly. If you remember from the beginning of my story, about 20 years, I had carried that basically fear in me.

Maybe going back that we can change that little timing there. I remember because in the church where you talk a lot about Jesus, about the return of Jesus, that’s what you expect in the church. I was taught about the rapture. So as a consequence, even very in my teenage years, if I could not sleep at night, I would go down and check on my parents to see if there was in their rooms. If I hear them snore, that’s okay. The rapture has not opened. I’m okay. I can go back to bed. But nearly every night I would do that. It became sort of a ritual for me.

Carrie: Yes. A lot of checking.

Pierre: I needed to be sure that Jesus had not left me out. That’s one little episode also. What happened to me was about 22 years old. I got married very early and this marriage didn’t turn out well at all. My wife just left me after one year. I came home to my parents a bit like a prodigal son. I’m thankful to them that they didn’t shame me at all, or they didn’t really blame me for anything that happened, as it was before. And so on top of everything else, I would carry that as a label on me that, you know, I’m done again.

I would read everything I can get my hands on about those two things. The big subject would be the Holy Spirit that Jesus talks about, and divorce and remarriage, that is ever a thing that we talk about in church. I’ve gone through every bit of literature in French, in English, in everything, really.

Carrie: Just trying to seek that reassurance that it would be okay for you to get remarried.

Pierre: Every visiting pastor, you know, about his opinion, one got really fed up and told me to just stop. Oh, man. It was too much. That’s the setting because when God allowed me to meet this girl, she is a British lady, and now we’ve been married for about 12 years.

We have two children together and she’s fantastic. I hope she hears that, but when I was considering talking about my feelings about what I really, I wanted to invite her out and we went to McDonald’s the very first thing. So what about me? I’m divorced. I’m the son of a pastor, and I’m not that poster child of a pastor child.

Thankfully, someone in the youth group got her first, and she was away somehow. She told me, I know your story. That was out of the way, and we could just start talking, and we decided that we liked each other. We started to have tea. She came to France to be an English language assistant, and she wouldn’t find a house.

A mom just suggested that she would write the church, the nearest church to her job. They knew someone who could provide accommodation. The email landed at the pastor’s desk and he said, I have two grown-up sons and they’re out. The bedroom is available. Just come. She ended up in my bedroom.

We find out that we have some of the way to work and back in common, we would share that length of a journey on a Tuesday evening and get to know each other a little bit. When I was considering whether we could go further, get engaged, because I was serious about these things, the thought was ever can I, should I, is that something that’s allowed at all?

I would go back and forth. Yes, no, yes, no, yes, no. I think that broke my brain over it.

Carrie: This whole time you didn’t know that. I mean, this is kind of classic relationship, OCD mixed with scrupulosity, it sounds like. You didn’t know you had OCD at all?

Pierre: No. It’s actually my wife who found out several years later because when she has a question. She Google’s everything and she found OCD scrupulosity symptoms be like this and this and that. And she said, “Oh, that sounds like Pierre”, but I’m ahead of myself. What happened was that I started to have those thoughts in my head and it was an actualization of my fear that I would blaspheme the spirits.

Just as the Bible describes really a flaming arrow, like a shooting star in my head.  I just couldn’t or I didn’t know what to do with that and they became even more present. I think it lasted about two weeks and on the 31st of May 2010.

I remember the day.  I remember the moment it just broke out. It was just us as a damn. A dam had broken in my head and I was in that panic attack that just could not stop. I was in my own flat. I was grown up. I was independent. I was having my life. I ran back to my parents and eat under the bed. I just couldn’t say anything because I just thought, you know, if I speak it, it will become true.

It would become a true blasphemy. So it was unspeakable. In the real sense of the word, I was feeling like I was burning inside of me. My chest was so tight and I was completely shocked. That’s something I wanted to avoid by all means. Something I’m not something I just wouldn’t dream of and it was all happening again.

I’m describing it from the perspective of somebody who’s read every single verse about it. I just couldn’t sleep at night and I just wouldn’t be awake during the day. So to me, that’s a description of hell.

Carrie: That was anxious all

Pierre: The time for no particular reason and I wasn’t about to blame God because the thing just happened in my head.

The very first reaction of my father was to get an appointment with a Christian counselor. I learned that these guys exist. He gave me something to sleep, and we started talking about my story and everything I shared my fears and I shared everything I could remember about my difficult moments, the divorce, the different hurts that I lived as a teenager or young adult, the difficulty about working in the workplace. I had some difficulty keeping a job.

I think everything feeds the anxiety. Every little rejection, whether it’s true or just perceived, it’s all added. And then when it’s completely, when the hole is full, it explodes and,

Carrie: So how did you come to like that realization that this was a mental health issue versus a spiritual issue?

I think that’s something that a lot of people dealing with OCD wrestle with. Is this a spiritual issue? Is this a mental health issue? Is this both?

Pierre: To me, if it’s a spiritual issue, it needs a spiritual answer. In my case, because I thought the sin was too big to be even forgiven. Just read about what Jesus says himself. If truly this is the case, there is no forgiveness, so there’s no need to go to a spiritual answer. 

Carrie: Makes sense.

Pierre: I had to go around the short circuit, the anxiety to be able to deal with it, to really understand what it is all about. When I realized that it’s not a sin issue because I haven’t actually proceeded to blaspheme the spirit because that’s not what I wanted to do in the first place.

That’s through the reading of all the material that I came across. I realized what Jesus is really talking about. I’m able to initiate my own understanding of what’s happening. I receive a lot of help. Other people’s point of view. But that’s particularly important that people just speak into your life at this very moment, then bring hope and bring comfort that no, you’re not actually seeing the problem, whether it’s mental, whether it’s a disturbance in the brain.

I have no idea. I just know that something happened. And so therefore. There must be a problem, but it has others, and God is not angry at you for thinking whatever comes through the brain.

Carrie: You found counseling really helpful, kind of getting that objective point of view on everything and some clarification?

Pierre: What really kept the balance when I got married to my wife, we moved to the UK and someone in the church just grabbed me and took me to a discipleship program called Freedom in Christ, which really helped me a lot.

It takes really the fundamentals of the Bible in a way that engages the person to see themselves as really, they are saved. They are redeemed, they are new, and they can renew their mind, they can change what they believe about God and other people, especially themselves. They can fight those thoughts that come into their heads, and just not believe them as if they were themselves thinking these things.

It might be the enemy just poisoning their minds, and they can just stand up and say, “No, I don’t want to think these things. They’re not me. They’re not what God wants me to think about renewing your mind.”

I remember one of the sessions was about forgiveness. What they ask you to do is to take a piece of paper and on the column, you write the name of a person and next to it, what they did or what they said to you.

The very fact, and next to it, what you felt about it and what it made you believe about yourself, about God or something like that. And when you decide to forgive this person, you realize that you’re not holding what they did against them at all anymore. 

I have a story about this, if I may. I was working for an old Christian lady. She has a big house, plenty of rooms. She needed a cleaner, but it was a particular kind of lady because she had very strong ideas about how she wanted the cleaning done. We always found ourselves at odds about my hoovering the whole thing at once versus her wanting one room at a time.

I grew very stressed and intense, even as far as spraying every morning that would be okay and that we don’t have that sort of, an argument over how the dusting is done or how the beds are made or something like that, which I find ridiculous. 

One time I was working for her and it all became very, just too much. In my head, I kept just thinking about the past. A lot of things just came up from very long ago. What I used to do to deal with these things was to replay the whole story in my head and try to get myself in a different outcome or be able to say, finally, 10 years after the fact, what I should have said or what I wanted to say to that person who’s now dead, maybe, or gone. I didn’t realize that it had no effect. It just feeds the problem.

Carrie: Yes. It’s a compulsion essentially to replay things in your mind.

Pierre: Basically in the same week, I went through this session on forgiveness. This lady’s name was on the list. The next week, I went back to work and the same story again, and she was not happy about the way I cleaned the room.

I remember just looking at her and thinking, what’s going on? I should be in tears now. I should be completely overwhelmed. And it’s just as if, It’s okay. He’s just speaking what she wants to say. I’m here and we can start talking about these things. I said, “You know what? You’re my employer. Yes, but I’m also your brother in Christ, and you have no right to speak to me like that.”  That was one element, one story when I was really at that moment, taking things. Biblically, I could handle things that I was never able to do before.

Carrie: That forgiveness piece is really powerful. Then almost like it freed you up to be assertive and communicate healthily instead of just holding all of that anger inside.

Pierre: I realized that a lot of what I was afraid of were lies. Lies that I pick up very early about not sharing my problems, about being a good boy, not making a mess, not making a fuss about anything. Things that I picked up wrongly from church. I’m sure that nobody ever taught these things from the pulpit, but that was what I received.

Carrie: You just felt like you had to be perfect. That was part of your conscientiousness.

Pierre: I realized also that I can trust God when he says that he loves me.

Carrie: That’s huge. How did you get to that point? Like, you can trust God when he says he loves me.

Pierre: Well, I want to say I’ve come a long way. I was reading the book of Exodus, the Ten Commandments. When I was in that state of really being fearful about being very anxious. So it’s, it’s a long time ago, but I remember I read it in French. I don’t know exactly how you read it in English. It jumped at me that this phrase is not written as a commandment is written as a promise. So in English, it’s, it does say, you shall not insert the comment, you shall not have other gods, you shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not, in my French Bible, it’s written as a future tense, and it changed everything, saying that, by the grace of God, I shall not do these things. 

Of course not. Why on earth would I go and murder somebody? Why would I even dream about cheating on my wife or something like that? Of course, it’s not me, my own self that’s able to do these things. It’s the power of God in me. But the way you read the Bible also informs the way you live.

I remember and, I’m still able to share it with people that came to free us from the rules and to give us life. It’s not about being perfect and checking all the marks so we can actually have a true relationship with God, brothers.

Carrie: I think that’s awesome. What would you want to say to somebody who feels like they’ve been going through this for a long time and they don’t feel like they have a lot of hope or that things can get better or maybe they feel like they’re beyond help? What would you say to that person?

Pierre: I’d be very careful saying, it’s okay, you’ll get over it. You know, I’ve been there before. I know what you feel. Those things are very dangerous to say. But just encourage people to talk about it, to open up, not to keep things inside as a prison. In my notes, I’ve written, uh, OCD is slavery.

It’s like, we chain ourselves with different fears that we have, the lies that we believe. We give the devil an opportunity to keep us down, but in fact, Jesus wants us to be free and to free others. So I love the song, “I’m No Longer a Slave to Fear.”

Carrie: Yes. that’s a good one.

Pierre: Every time I sing it, I change the chorus a little bit. I’m no longer a slave to anger. I’m no longer a slave to lust. No longer a slave to procrastination, anything. I have found those things about myself. Every time I think, every time I worship, every time I meet other people and we start talking about these things, I just jump on the opportunity.

I was those emotions, I was anxiety, and I was in bondage. I’m not perfect. I’m still on the way. I have moments where my wife reminds me that I’m going on a rant and it’s not healthy, but I’m definitely better than I was even a year ago.

Carrie: Yes. That’s awesome.

Pierre: Jesus loves you and he went all the way to die on the cross so that the fear and the anxiety would be dealt with. 

Carrie: The love of God is so powerful for us to focus on in terms of talking about being free, and you’re not the first person that said OCD is like a prison, I’ve definitely heard that from many people, or it’s like slavery, and when we truly understand and can rest and trust in the love of God, that changes things just dramatically in our lives, I’ve seen that in my life, just knowing like, okay, I’m going through suffering, I’m going through a hard time, there’s difficulties, but I know God loves me, and I know that I can rest in that, and if he loves me, and he’s my father, then he knows what’s best for me, and I can trust him that this isn’t the end of the story yet.

I think your story has so many redemptive pieces, even just talking about your wife, there’s probably somebody listening to this thinking, oh I’m never going to be able to get remarried again. I definitely went through that when I felt like I had the scarlet letter of divorce all over me after I got divorced from my first husband.

I just kind of wanted to say I didn’t want this. This wasn’t even something that I wanted. It happened. God brought you another spouse and God brought me another spouse. There’s hope out there too, for people who are struggling to find love and to find compassionate people that understand struggles. That piece is beautiful in itself as well. Your wife’s being patient with you and walking you through some of those challenges that you were struggling with. 

Do you still have some of the thoughts about the obsessions about blasphemy coming back and are those easier to shake off now?

Pierre: I think that this is dismantled right now. I’m not thinking in any shape or form at all about actually blaspheming. That would be a different story if I did. But anything else that really comes and scares me, any thought about finances, for example, anything that Price to tell me that I’m not going to make it I can’t handle the same way why God would let me down is rescued me from so much can take my little person and carry it to something I never dreamt about I would never have known that I would be married and have two beautiful children and if you’ve told me when it happened.

When we got married, we had nothing no money in the bank that itself is a story that I could also share. how God provided everything and also the fact that we are two in the boat so we can remind each other when one of us has a down moment. We can help each other and pray for each other. So it’s not always my wife who shakes me up. Sometimes it’s me. It’s my turn to say, I’ve been sad before. I’ve been there. I know what you feel, but it’s not the end of the story.

Carrie: Thank you so much for sharing your story with us. I think it’s going to be encouraging to some other people who are struggling. I know it can be challenging sometimes speaking in your non-native language.

I appreciate you working through the English with us. We have people who listen all over the world, so I know that we have people that listen in the UK and Australia and other places. It’s always nice to hear from people outside the US too, and their stories.

__________________________________

 Are you struggling in your OCD journey right now? Are you tired of that endless cycle of obsessions and compulsions? I know some of you are dealing with mental compulsions like rumination that just seem so hard to get out of. Please come join me for the Freedom from Mental Compulsions Challenge. It’s a free webinar that I’m putting on. August the 5th at noon central time.

You can sign up at hopeforanxietyandocd.com/challenge. I’m going to be talking with you about how inference-based cognitive behavioral therapy may be able to help you. I’m Super excited to bring the 12 modules of ICBT to you in mid-August. 

Hope for Anxiety and OCD is a production of By the Well Counseling. Our show is hosted by me, Carrie Bock. A licensed Professional Counselor in Tennessee. Opinions given by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of myself or By the Will Counseling. Our original music is by Brandon Mangum. Until next time, may you be comforted by God’s great love for you.

128. How to Develop a 3 Song Playlist That Will Calm an Anxiety Attack

Written by Carrie Bock on . Posted in Anxiety, Podcast Episode.

In this episode, Carrie revisits insights from a previous conversation with music therapist Tim Ringgold and shares practical tips for crafting a calming playlist to ease anxiety.

Episode Highlights:

  • How to select songs for a calming playlist based on mood and tempo.
  • The importance of engaging actively with music to ground yourself in the present moment.
  • Tips for incorporating uplifting praise and worship music into your mental health practices.
  • Practical techniques for using music actively during anxiety attacks.
  • Insights on building a personalized “Battle Playlist” to combat mental and spiritual challenges.

Episode Summary:

In this episode of Hope for Anxiety and OCD, I discuss how to create a three-song playlist designed to help calm an anxiety attack. This idea originated from my conversation with music therapist Tim Ringgold in episode six. We revisit his insights on selecting the right songs and understanding the power of music in managing anxiety.

The key to building an effective playlist lies in understanding the role of tempo and rhythm in regulating your emotions. Tim explains that when dealing with anxiety, it’s essential to start with a song that matches your current state—usually something more up-tempo—then gradually transition to slower, calmer music. This approach, known as the ISO principle, helps to guide your body from a heightened state of anxiety back to a more relaxed one.

However, it’s not just about listening passively. Engaging with the music physically—whether by tapping along with the beat, humming, or singing—can bring you back to the present moment, making the music more effective in reducing anxiety. This active engagement is crucial, as simply listening to music can sometimes trigger past memories or future worries, pulling you out of the present.

I also touch on the spiritual aspect of music, emphasizing the power of praise and worship in overcoming difficult emotions. Incorporating songs that help you focus on God’s promises can be a powerful tool in managing both mental and spiritual health.

Whether you’re dealing with anxiety, OCD, or both, having a tailored playlist can be a valuable addition to your mental health toolkit. I encourage you to start building your own three-song playlist and even consider adding praise and worship music to uplift your spirit during challenging times.

For more information on this topic and other mental health resources, visit carriebock.com

Explore related episodes:

6. The Science Behind Engaging with Music for Anxiety Relief with Tim Ringgold

Transcript:

Carrie: Welcome to Hope for Anxiety and OCD, episode 128. Today on the show, we’re talking about how to develop a three-song playlist that will calm an anxiety attack. This nugget is way back from episode six when we interviewed a music therapist and speaker, Tim Ringgold.

Before we hop into today’s episode, I want to let you know that the Christian Faith and OCD Summer Learning Series is going great. It’s off to a good start, and I’m starting to think about what’s next for the fall. I am loving inference-based cognitive behavioral therapy so much. Um, just breathing it in and allowing it to sink in, teaching it to my clients. It’s been amazing just to see people’s awareness and how their awareness has been able to shift their behavior.

It’s a very present, mindful type therapy. I want to know if you are interested in hearing more about it. If you’d be interested. So, if you’re interested in participating in a group this fall, either to interact with others, like a support group type where you’re learning about ICBT and then talking with others about implementing that in your life, or if you like the learning content.

I’m going to have a survey out that’s being sent out to my email list over the next few weeks, and you’re welcome to hop on the email list, fill out that survey, or you can contact us through hopeforanxietyandocd.com. We’d love to send that survey over to you as well. Stay tuned and be on the lookout for some potential group options this fall.

Now let’s hop right into the episode. We are going to start by looking at what types of music you might want for your three song playlist. Tim will share how to order them and then why it’s important to do more than just press play.

Carrie: Do you encourage people to listen to certain types of music for when they’re anxious or when they’re depressed?

Tim: When it comes to the material that’s in the music, here’s what we know from research. Typically, if you are struggling with depression or anger, Particularly, what’s going to happen is the music you reach for might do one of three things. Typically, people will reach for music that matches their mood.

That’s normal. We want to validate where we are intuitively. So angry people, if they listen to angry music, it may do one of three things. It may reduce the anger. because they now have this resonance with something they feel validated. It’s cathartic. That actually reduces the anger. Sometimes it doesn’t do anything to the anger.

It has no effect at all. They just engage in the music and they feel as angry as they did beforehand. Sometimes it actually exacerbates the feelings of anger. And I would submit that anger and anxiety are more related than anxiety and depression because I feel like anger and anxiety are hyper-regulated, hyperactive states, whereas depression is a hypo active state.

There’s this correlation, but not identical, but correlated. So if you’re in a hyperregulated, hyperactive state, There’s the chance that you could exacerbate that, and we’ve read from research with teens where, same with depression, they listen to sad music when they’re depressed. The music doesn’t make them sad.

They were sad, and they reached for the music that matched their sadness. The music either makes them feel better, doesn’t change the sadness, or actually exacerbates it, makes it worse. It’s really important for people to notice what’s happening in their body as they’re listening to the music they reach for because there’s no stamp of this than that when it comes to music.

Carrie: Jumping in here to add that we are instructed in Philippians 4. 8 to focus on whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is ever is admirable if anything is excellent or praiseworthy to think about such things. We want to make sure that when you pick songs for your playlist, that they pass the Philippians 4 8 test.

Tim: There’s a couple of things. One is with anxiety, a lot of times your focus is no longer in the present. You’re kind of wrapped up. It’s a kind of a disembodied experience as a trigger to an embodied sense of panic. But the disembodied part is you’re up in your head, perseverating over a future that you’re convinced is going to happen.

Carrie: Since anxiety and OCD take you out of the present moment, like Tim is talking about, this is why learning to be in the moment is so helpful. Guess what? I have a course where you can learn mindfulness practices as a Christian. Check it out on my website under courses. You can get 10 percent off by using the code LISTENER.

Now, Tim is going to tell us about finding the right tempo for our song selection.

Tim: When it comes to music listening, music listening is very nuanced, and it’s very complex. And that’s why I try to encourage people, music making. Because the music making, it’s a motor cortex embodied physical experience happening in the present moment.

It is not really subject to these nuances of context. It’s just, here’s the beat. The beat’s happening now. Oh, the beat’s getting faster. Oh, I got to keep up with the beat right now. There’s no emotional discussion about the beat. There’s the beat. Okay, I’m going to tap along with the beat. If you’re feeling elevated and you want to slow your heart rate, blood pressure, respiratory rhythm down, the principle we use is called the ISO principle and the law of rhythmic entrainment.

So you start with music that’s up tempo to match how you’re feeling, and then you pick music that gradually slows down. Your playlist would be like the first song is the fastest of the three. The second song is a little bit slower in tempo, and the third song’s a little bit slower in tempo. than that, but not shocking.

Carrie: Just gradually going down.

Tim: If you’ve ever been to any kind of cardio class or DJ, if you really pay attention, the music they pick usually starts slow during the warmup. And then it picks up, but gradually, and then it peaks. And then at the end, during the cool down, the tempo, the speed of the music slows down.

The intensity of the music slows a little bit because we’re warming down. We’re bringing it down at the end. So that kind of tempo arc or speed arc, if you will, that’s really what your body responds to more than anything. It’s going to respond to that.

Carrie: Okay, hopefully you’re starting to get some ideas on what songs you want on your playlist. Maybe you have an idea of a fast song or a slower song. In this next section, Tim explains why it’s important to do more than just listen to music if it’s going to help you during an anxiety attack.

Tim: If I’ve got my phone and I’ve got my earbuds in and I put on a playlist of music that inspires me that I’ve already put in there for just such an occasion.

What I want to do is I want to either tap along on my body with the beat, with the music. I want to hum along with the melody. I want to actually audio, which is like when you sing in your head, but not out loud. You can sing along with a song in your head and you’re not actually using your mouth, but your brain is doing all of the calisthenics to produce the pitch and the tempo and the words in your head.

What happens is you just activate your vocal cord. If you want to release that out into the environment, you can just sing along in your head. You can sing along out loud. even better, but any way that you can activate your body to match the music, then your body is involved. That’s a huge component for people with anxiety is because getting back into your body brings you back into the present moment because the only place your body is is in the present moment.

The challenge with remembering that is you got to remember it, but if you just turn on music and you try to play along with the beat or tap along with the beat, you’re just trying to keep the beat. And by virtue of trying to keep the beat, now you’re back in your body and you’re back in the present moment because music’s time based.

When we play music in order to keep the beat, we have to be present. The challenge with listening to music is listening to music can become a very disembodied experience.

Carrie: Passive versus active.

Tim: Yes, it engages your imagination and your memory. So you can be listening to a song and you can float away. You can, the song can take you to where the song is with a disembodied experience. When you just listen to the song, you’ve had this experience where you listen to a song that you have heard before and you have a memory associated with that song. You’re no longer in the present moment. You are back wherever that was.

It could be good, could be bad. Same thing can happen in the future. You can hear a song and it can trigger your thoughts and your feelings and your emotions about the future because there’s nothing holding you. The song itself isn’t holding you in the present moment unless you try to engage with it, with your body.

Carrie: I know I can definitely relate to what Tim was just saying right there, there are certain songs that since my parents funeral that were sung at the funeral that I really have a hard time listening to at this time and trigger a lot of sadness from me. And there are other times that songs come up that remind me of happy times or sad times and it can be challenging to navigate through those. So be careful what memories you may have attached to some of your music. I hope this episode has helped you put one more tool in your toolbox when it comes to dealing with anxiety or OCD. Typically, we don’t recommend people with OCD use relaxation type strategies when dealing with anxiety. anxiety from OCD specifically.

However, I also know that many of my clients with OCD also have anxiety or panic attacks from time to time. We could all use with a little more nervous system regulation. I want to talk with you for just a moment about the power of utilizing praise and worship music for your mental and spiritual health.

Psalms 34 1, I will bless the Lord at all times. His praise shall continually be in my mouth. If you know much about the life of David, he went through a lot. He praised God in the good times and in the bad times. When Saul was out to kill him, when he mourned the loss of his best friend Jonathan, he was praising God.

Praise is powerful because it puts God over our circumstances, and over our feelings. I know I’ve talked about this before on the show, but I’ve been through some tough bouts of depression in my life where I did not think that I could get out of bed and face the day and I would play music in the morning to get me up. Beautiful Day by Jamie Grace was one of those. I now have a playlist that I’ve saved on YouTube called The Battle Playlist, and these are the songs that I sing along to if I get into a spiritual or mental funk. Raise a Hallelujah, Waymaker, and Jirah are just a few of those songs that are on there. I just pray that you get a battle playlist together and that the this episode helps you to start doing that.

I’ll be back here with you next week for another episode.

Hope for Anxiety and OCD is a production of By the Well Counseling. Our show is hosted by me, Carrie Bock, a licensed professional counselor in Tennessee. Opinions given by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views The use of myself or By the Well Counseling our original music is by Brandon Mangrum. Until next time may you be comforted by god’s great love for you

112. Finding Motivation to Finish with Carrie Bock, LPC-MHSP

Written by Carrie Bock on . Posted in Counseling, Podcast Episode.

In this week’s episode, Carrie shares a six-step guide for finding motivation and achieving your goals in 2024. From understanding your why to making small changes, tune in for practical tips to overcome challenges and finish strong.

Episode Highlights:

  • Why knowing your “why” is crucial.
  • How to learn from past experiences to avoid mistakes.
  • The importance of researching the “how” for effective planning.
  • Strategies for handling challenging days in your journey.
  • Why seeking accountability can boost your progress.
  • Tips for choosing a good start date and successfully executing your plan.

Episode Summary:

Welcome to Christian Faith and OCD Episode 112! As we wrap up January, many of us are either pressing forward with our New Year’s goals or feeling like we’ve fallen short. If you’re finding it tough to stay motivated and need a boost to finish strong, this episode is for you. I’ll be sharing practical insights and personal experiences to help reignite your passion and keep you on track with your goals.

In this episode, I dive deep into finding the motivation to complete the goals you’ve set. We all start with great intentions, but maintaining momentum can be challenging. I’ll discuss how understanding your “why” and learning from past experiences can set a solid foundation for achieving your goals. This includes identifying what’s been holding you back and planning effectively to tackle those hurdles.

I also cover the importance of researching and planning your approach, especially when embarking on new habits or changes. From setting a realistic start date to preparing for inevitable challenges, having a clear plan is crucial. I share examples from my own life and how they’ve guided me through my health and fitness journey this year.

For the full breakdown of steps and additional tips on maintaining motivation, be sure to listen to the complete episode. I hope these insights inspire you to persevere and reach the goals that matter most to you this year.

More to listen to!

60. The Benefits of Fitness and Spirituality Combined with Jen Roland

Transcript

Hi, welcome to Christian Faith and OCD episode 112. I know it’s the end of January right now, and some of you may have the gung-ho in the middle of working on goals that you started at the beginning of the year, and some of you may have given up on them completely. And some of you may be somewhere in between.

I want to do this. I want to finish strong, but I’m struggling right now. So I wanted to talk with you today about finding motivation to finish. We can have good plans, good intentions, but if we don’t know how to execute and get our plan from start to finish, then we’re going to have a challenge. I think many times we get excited. Yes, it’s a new year, fresh start. I want to make changes to my physical health. I want to eat better. I want to actually stick to my budget this month instead of just spending erratically. I want to develop relationships. Maybe I want to put more effort and energy into developing friendships, mom, friends, dating relationships, whatever your story is, maybe you have a career goal you’re trying to hit.

I want to reach a certain number of sales or I’m looking to get promoted. Whatever it is, I hope that this episode will help you to find the motivation to do the things that God has laid on your heart for this year. I’m going to give you a step process, and I’m going to give you examples from my own life of something that I’m working through in 2024.

I’ve gone through that process, it’s really helped me solidify how to share it with you who are looking for motivation. You may have hard things that you need to do in therapy, and that may be another thing that you’re trying to motivate yourself towards.

Number one is find and clarify your why.

This is so huge. Why do you want to make this change? I saw a picture of myself in December. It was a picture of my family in front of a Christmas tree at church, and I looked at how I looked physically and realized I am carrying more weight than I want to be carrying at this point. I’ve gone through various weight fluctuations over the years.

I’ve lost it. I’ve probably lost the same 15 pounds and found it several times at this point. Another thing happened in December where something popped up on my Facebook memories four years ago. I had been working out regularly at the Y and it was a picture of me with that class and the teacher had, it was her last day.

So we had all gotten together and taken a picture to kind of wish her well in her new adventure. I contrasted those two pictures in my mind and I was like, “Okay, here’s me now. I’m not happy with not just the way that I look, but I’m not happy with the way that I feel.”

I have this other picture of me where I was feeling amazing. I was moving my body on a regular basis. My mental health was great because of that movement of my body. I was getting all of those endorphin benefit. Everything that was going on. I was sleeping. There’s so many positive benefits to exercise and eating right, so I decided I’ve got to do something different and actually got sucked into a Facebook ad because apparently the little algorithm knows me too well and bought a fitness program and diet and exercise program that involves carb cycling.

One thing I decided at the beginning of this experience was that I was not going to go hungry. That was a huge thing that I had decided like, “Hey, I’m going to figure out a way to not to be hungry.” So that was supposed to be one of the benefits of this program. I had done a lot of calorie tracking and different things before and just something felt lacking. This is a macro tracking program. It’s a little bit different.

All of that is inconsequential right now because we’re still talking about your why. Why do you want to make this change? For me, I wanted to feel better. I wanted to be happier about how I look. I wanted to be more toned. I wanted to have more energy to spend time with my daughter.

I found a cave tour at Mammoth Cave. It was kind of a more rugged cave tour, not just the ones that you do the typical walkthrough of, but I thought, “Man, I would really love to go on that rugged cave tour for some self care and feeling a sense of accomplishment for myself.” I’ve loved caves for a long time. Something I probably haven’t shared on the podcast before, but caves have been always just something that have been really interesting to me. I’ve done several different cave tours, even done several of the ones at Mammoth Cave. I decided I’d really like to go on this, but if I try to go in my current physical fitness level. I am not going to feel good about it. I am going to be absolutely hurting and my back is probably going to be wishing that I really didn’t do that. I knew that I had to strengthen up my abs more. That’s one of my goals that I’m working towards is being able to do that CAVE program. There’s a bit of a multifaceted “why” that I have.

Now, your why may be completely different. A lot of times our whys, though, have to do with our relationship to self and others. If you say, I want to have a better relationship with God, That’s a good piece, but why? Try to dig down a little bit deeper. “Okay, because I know that when I’m more spiritually connected, I am more present in my family life. My priorities are in the right place because I’m putting God first and then these other things are following, just like scripture tells us.” Wen you can really dig down and find your why, and find the things that have gotten in the way in the past, I can put that as number two. I just created an extra step because we’re ad libbing this right now, which is welcome to podcasting.

Find out what has failed in the past and your learning from your past mistakes. One thing that I’ve learned from past health journeys is that the number on the scale really screws me up. I can’t be focused on that. If I’m focused on that and it doesn’t fluctuate the way that I want it to, I end up getting discouraged. If it fluctuates to a certain level, then I’m like, “Hey, I can eat more.” Sometimes I get derailed on the diet aspect of things. I knew that that’s an issue for me. I also have gotten squirrely about numbers in terms of counting calories in the past. I don’t know if that’s a little bit of an anxiety thing where I think it has different manifestations, but it can be things like, “Oh, I only have like 300 calories left today. What if I eat these 300 calories and then I’m still hungry? Do I want that 300 calories? It just can really mess with me. Did I track all of the calories correctly? That can be really derailing for you if you’re dealing with anxiety and trying to make positive health changes. So I knew that that was kind of a problem that I had run into in the past.

What I talked about a little bit earlier was I had a lot of excuses for not doing this earlier. A lot of times for me, it was easy to default and my daughter was the excuse. Well, I don’t have time because I’m a working mom and I’m busy and I’m either working or I’m taking care of my daughter. I’m taking care of my household, so therefore I don’t have the time and the energy that I need to work out. I also know for me that there are certain things I’m just not going to do. I am not going to get up at 5 am. and work out, so not set yourself up for failure if you’re not a morning person. You’ve tried in the past to get up at 5 a.m and work out and it has not gone well for you.

Why are you going to continue to try to do that which you know completely crashed and burned in the past? I see people who do that all the time. You have to find what’s going to be most successful for you. For me, sometimes that meant I have to work out after my daughter goes to bed. It may look like I have to work out at work before I pick her up from daycare or on a lunch break. You have to find what’s going to work for you. Sometimes finding what works for you is learning from the past experience and past mistakes that you’ve made. Learning from the past experiences that you’ve had.

Point number three, research the how. With this new program that I’ve gotten involved in, it’s tracking macros very different from tracking calories, and that has been a huge learning curve for me. I spent a chunk of time towards the end of December, instead of saying, “Hey, I’m gonna start this diet tomorrow, and I’m gonna be like, completely on it.”

I really looked at and researched what types of foods have less carbs. What has more protein? How am I going to get the amount of protein that I need in a day? What are some recipes that I can feed my family? Because I’m not trying to cook three different meals for three different people. I know that that’s not going to work very well. Really researching different recipe websites. What can I prep ahead of time to be able to make my life easier beecause I am a busy mom, I do have responsibilities at home and with my own business. Thinking through my meal planning process and figuring out the different types of food that I can eat to get enough protein or the right amount of carbs depending on the day because it’s cycling between low, medium, and high.

Researching of the how is important. There’s a saying that says “if we don’t have a plan, we are essentially planning to fail.” Having a plan is super important, so before you take any steps or take any changes, Let’s look at this from the mental health standpoint, when I’m encouraging clients to practice skills outside of session, whether that’s deep breathing for anxiety, whether that’s mindfulness for OCD, just learning to notice those thoughts, learning to notice their just thoughts, learning to notice that you can let them go. You don’t have to hold on to them. When they have therapy, they have set appointments to do therapy, but when they’re at home, they don’t necessarily have a specific time of the day where they do that. We talk through that. Would it be best for you to practice this in the morning when you first get up or after you get ready? Would it be best for you to practice this for five, 10 minutes after you eat lunch?

When we want to start a new habit or have a new behavior, it helps us to connect it with something that we’re already doing. You can learn that from the book by James Clear called Atomic Habits. It’s an excellent book. It talks about developing positive habits in your life and removing negative habits, which we all struggle with. I want to go back and read that book some more and really work on implementing some of the things in my life to review some of our points here.

We talked about finding and clarifying your why we talked about learning from past experience of what didn’t work, researching the how and now we’re going to talk about number four, which is plan for challenging days.

Look, I don’t care what you’re trying to do or what new thing you’re trying to implement or what you’re trying to finish. You’re going to have hard days. Make a decision upfront what those days are going to look like. How am I going to handle the sugar craving? How am I going to handle that day that I’m exhausted and don’t want to work out? How am I going to handle the week that I get sick and I’m not able to follow through with the diet exercise plan? This may look like a lot of different things for you. It may look like you writing down your why and saying, “Hey, here’s why I’m making these changes for me.” It’s going back to when I want to eat something that maybe wouldn’t be the healthiest for me. Going back to that picture of this is where you are and you have a picture of where you are and you have a picture of where you want to be. Let’s move towards the picture of where you want to be. Instead of continuing to stay in the picture of where you are, it may be certain affirmations that you write down to yourself, like God is bigger than any challenge that I’m going to face today. That’s something that I tell myself when I feel stuck, when I feel like I can’t do something.

All the strength and the power that you need, you can access through the Holy Spirit, through prayer, and that spiritual connection to God is super important. If this is something that God has called you to do, then he is going to equip you and enable you to be able to do it. I have to speak that to myself on a regular basis. Keep that in mind. Plan for your challenging days. Maybe that means, if you’re trying to change your diet, that you have some quick, healthy foods in the refrigerator. Maybe it means that you have a list written down of “If you don’t have this food, I can eat this food.” If you eat out a lot, what are some healthy options as you eating out.

When you’re talking about motivation for mental health changes, knowing that you can make positive changes and it’s not always going to look like a straight diagonal line. That’s true of any positive change. I tell my clients all the time, you’re going to have your ups and downs as you’re making progress, so don’t be discouraged when you take a step back. Just know you have made this much progress so far because you take one step back. That doesn’t negate the progress that you have already made. I’ve got to keep going and go to the next thing. Go to the next piece and pick up. Today you totally blew it. That doesn’t mean that has to become a habit. That doesn’t mean you have to go back to square one. You can say, “You know what? I can start again later today. I can start again tomorrow. “

Number five, seek accountability.

I have told everybody, including you, the podcast audience of health changes that I’m trying to make in my life. Actually, I broke it to the podcast audience on our email list where I wrote an email about some changes that I was making and asking some of you about changes and goals that you’re doing in the new year. I’ve told my in laws, I’ve told my friends, I’ve told loved ones because I want that accountability. I want people to ask me, how is this going in your life? I know you’re trying to eat more protein and less carbs. What does that look like? How are you doing with that? I have another friend who’s also making some health changes, and she’s telling me about movement that she’s doing. I can share the movement that I’m getting in. I wanted people to know because it really helps me stay on track. If I don’t let other people in my life know the changes that I’m trying to make, then I can just kind of get away a little bit more with not making them and not feeling bad about not making those changes.

Accountability can be really huge and really beneficial to us. That may look like different things for different people. You may want to get in a support group and it could be something mental health related, could be something physical health related where you’re saying, “Hey, I want to make these positive changes in my life.” It could be a Bible study or a church group where you say, Hey, I want to become the person who God has called me to be. I know that I want to be reading my Bible. Our church is going through one of those read the Bible in a year plans. That’s another thing we’re doing in 2024 and it’s really great. Having that accountability where you can say like, “Hey, how was your reading going? What did you pick up on today? or how did you connect with God as you read his word today?” That accountability is very important for us being able to reach our goals. We can’t get there alone. A lot of times we try and we think we can, but you weren’t made to do this alone, regardless of what it is that you’re dealing with.

Number six, pick a good start date. There just are some times that are not a good time to make the change that you’re trying to make. I had situations where I was going through back pain and that’s part of the reason I got off track. I’m not going to say that that’s 100 percent the reason, but there definitely have been some physical limitations and some rehab that I’ve had to do at various points over the last few years. For me to say, I’m going to go on a complete physical journey transformation and walk five miles that just wasn’t realistic and it wouldn’t have been helpful for me because I had to start where I was at. Starting small is good and we’ll talk about that in the last step, but when they talk with people about quitting smoking, they always say, have a quit date, put it on your calendar, make that determination, have it as a visual so that you know after today you are not doing cigarettes anymore. That does something to our brain, really trains us. You had all this preparation beforehand.,Finding your why, figuring the how, planning for the challenging days, getting your accountability on board so that when you pick your start date, it’s a good time to start. You probably don’t want to start your diet plan on December the 24th.

If you know you’re going to be having Christmas celebrations with family over the next couple of days and eat way too many Christmas cookies like I did. That was what happened to me. Picking a good start date is important because a lot of times we do these things that We’re not trying to set ourselves up for failure, but then when you take a step back and look at it, it’s like we really planned in a way that didn’t set ourselves up for success, and then we turned around and beat ourself up for it.

We’re like, “okay, I have all these major life changes happening in my life, but I need to make this change.” It’s a huge change. We don’t make the huge change that’s unrealistic, and we say, “Well, see. I told you I couldn’t do it” It gets into all this negative thinking and all this beating ourselves up.

Going back to planning for the challenging days, we’ve got to learn to be kind to ourselves. We’ve got to learn that we’re not always going to hit the mark. That’s what grace is for. That’s what the love of God is here for us and knowing that it’s okay. That doesn’t mean we’re a horrible person. It doesn’t mean that we’re not ever going to reach our goals because we can get into all of this negative thought process. “Oh, see, I told you I couldn’t do this and I couldn’t do that” Wust end up getting stuck and wallowing in a place of shame.

The last step that I want to talk you through is execute. When you are executing your plan and your goals and the step by step process, sometimes you need to ease your way into it. What I’ll find in talking with clients, they’ll say, “I’m going to create a goal where I am walking 30 minutes every day this week.” I’m kind of like, “but you’re not walking at all. That might be a good goal.” Say if you were walking four or five times a week and you want to do every day, or if you said, “Hey, I’m walking every day for 15 and I’d like to walk for 20 every day.” It sounds a little bit more doable, but to go from zero to 100 percent is probably not going to happen and that’s that whole setting yourself up for failure. Maybe if you’re trying to make positive health changes, you just focus on one thing. I’m going to drink X amount of ounces of water a day, whatever is deemed healthily, because that depends on your body weight. I’m going to drink this much water per day, or I’m going to trade one soda for sparkling water, or instead of drinking this soda, I’m going to drink flavored water instead, and making that one small change. When you can stick with that one small change, going to the next small change. Maybe you decide, you know what, instead of pulling through the drive thru and getting a breakfast sandwich, I am going to get the oatmeal or I am going to get a smoothie or make something at home. Whatever you deem is reasonable that you’re going to be able to do, and then you can always change that. Maybe you decide that the oatmeal is healthier than this, but it still has too much sugar or whatever the case is, you can always shift and adjust and change your plan as needed. That’s an important thing to remember.

Let’s talk through small changes that you can make to improve your mental health. Can you reduce alcohol consumption? Can you go to bed at the same time every night? Can you develop a relaxing bedtime routine or a joyful morning routine? What does that look like to wake up and embrace the joy of the Lord? Some of us have a really hard time with that in the morning, but you can do it. Put on a worship song or get up and stretch, move your body, go outside and take a deep breath. Maybe not if it’s super cold, whatever it is that is going to help you like engage in that process. Maybe you decide that your mental health goal is going to be journaling. I’m going to take five minutes before I go to sleep and just write down some of the things that I’ve been thinking about. Maybe going to reach out and ask someone for help this week. That’s huge. That’s something that we have a hard time doing. I’m going to work on saying no more. When what’s being asked of me doesn’t suit me or isn’t healthy, I’m going to set a boundary with a co worker or friend. We have entire episodes on setting boundaries on the podcast that you can go back and look at. Whatever you feel like God has laid on your heart to do in 2024. I just want you to know that you can find the motivation and that you can finish strong. Pray about it. Clarify your why. Sit with the Lord. What failed in the past? What didn’t go well? How can I learn from that? How can I grow? How can I set myself up for positive change? How can I plan for challenging days? Who’s going to be my support, my accountability on this journey? What’s a good day to start and Lord help me execute. I think all of this integrates with our spiritual life so well because self control is a spiritual discipline and we receive that through the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit does his part at work within us and we do our part in doing what we have been called and asked to do in obedience.

Thank you guys for listening to this episode. I hope that you are going to finish strong as we get to the end of January today. As you continue to make changes throughout the year, if there’s anything that we can do to help and support you in that process, please let us know.

I’m always up for episode suggestions. We do have a personal story interview coming your way in a couple weeks of a lady who went from being in a mental health hospital to really thriving and is now a health educator and advocate. She’s going to share some of her story and I know that’s going to be inspiring to you as well.

Christian Faith and OCD is a production of By the Well Counseling. Our show is hosted by me, Carrie Bock, Licensed Professional Counselor in Tennessee. Opinions given by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of myself or By the Well Counseling.

Until next time, may you be comforted by God’s great love for you.

 

109. What Christmas Teaches us about Managing Anxiety and OCD with Carrie Bock, LPC-MHSP

Written by Carrie Bock on . Posted in Anxiety, OCD, Podcast Episode.

In our Christmas special, Carrie talks about the Christmas story and how it can help with anxiety and OCD. By connecting Jesus’ experiences with our own struggles, Carrie offers insights and understanding for a more hopeful holiday season. 

Episode Highlights:

  • Timeless lessons from Christmas to help you deal with anxiety and OCD.
  • How you can relate Jesus’ challenging times to your own struggles, especially those related to anxiety.
  • The role of Jesus as a counselor and the guidance of the Holy Spirit, especially during uncertain times.
  • The value of connection over absolute certainty in managing anxiety and OCD.
  • Tips on managing anxiety during the holidays (excerpt from Episode 55)

Episode Summary:

Hello and welcome to Episode 109 of Christian Faith and OCD! Today, we’re diving into a unique perspective: what can Christmas teach us about managing anxiety and OCD?

One of my favorite modern Christmas songs by Chris Risen says, “This is such a strange way to save the world,” and it truly was. Jesus, who could have saved us from afar, chose to enter our world—full of hurt, pain, and anxiety—to be with us, as Emmanuel, “God with us.”

Jesus, fully God and fully man, experienced everything from hunger to betrayal and even intense anxiety, like when He sweat drops of blood before the cross. This tells us that God understands our struggles intimately. When we feel isolated by our OCD or anxiety, we can remember that Jesus chose to live in this world and experience its difficulties, so He truly gets what we’re going through.

Jesus also showed us the ultimate example of humility. He could have come as a mighty king but chose to be born in a manger, living among common people. In a world that’s so focused on appearances and perfection, Jesus’s humility reminds us that it’s okay to be open about our struggles, whether it’s anxiety, OCD, or anything else. We don’t need to hide our flaws but instead can share our testimonies even in the midst of our trials, trusting that God is working through it all.

That’s what Christmas teaches us about anxiety and OCD: Jesus came to be with us, to model humility, and to guide us as our eternal counselor. Merry Christmas, and I look forward to journeying with you in the new year!

Check out related episode: