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Tag: faith and mental health

227. Finding Paternal and Maternal Love in God: A Personal Story with Chris Russo

Written by Carrie Bock on . Posted in OCD, Personal Testimony, Podcast Episode.

In this episode, Carrie sits down with pastor Chris Russo to discuss how religious OCD, intrusive thoughts, childhood trauma, and fears surrounding salvation shaped his relationship with God and how counseling, community, and faith became important parts of his healing journey.

You Will Learn:

  • How scrupulosity can create intense fears surrounding salvation and judgment
  • Why childhood trauma and loss can quietly affect your relationship with God
  • How intrusive thoughts can distort the way Christians interpret scripture
  • The difference between intellectually understanding God’s love and emotionally receiving it
  • Why counseling, community, and healthy relationships played a major role in Chris’s healing journey
  • What practical OCD recovery can look like while continuing to pursue faith, family, and purpose

Christian Faith, OCD, and the Fear of Losing God

What happens when your relationship with God becomes driven more by fear than freedom? In this episode, I sat down with Chris Russo, a pastor, husband, and father of three who has spent years navigating the complicated intersection of faith, intrusive thoughts, childhood loss, and religious OCD. Chris shared how losing his mother at nine years old quietly shaped the way he viewed safety, relationships, and eventually God Himself. After becoming a Christian in college, what should have felt life-giving slowly became overshadowed by intense fears surrounding salvation, judgment, and the possibility of losing his relationship with God. What I appreciated most about this conversation was Chris’s honesty about how exhausting it felt to constantly seek reassurance while secretly believing God might reject him at any moment.

Why Do Christians With Religious OCD Feel Constantly Afraid of God?

Chris described spending years terrified that he could accidentally cross a spiritual line and lose his salvation forever. One scripture in particular around blasphemy against the Holy Spirit became an obsession for him, even after talking with pastors and searching for reassurance. He explained that no matter how many answers he received, the fear never fully settled because OCD kept demanding certainty. I think this is something many Christians dealing with scrupulosity quietly wrestle with but rarely know how to explain to others.

How Does Childhood Trauma Affect Your Relationship With God?

As we talked more deeply, Chris connected his fear of losing God to losing his mother so suddenly as a child. He shared how that experience created this underlying belief that anything meaningful or safe could be taken away without warning. Hearing him make that connection was incredibly powerful because so many people carry similar wounds into adulthood without realizing how much those experiences shape their faith, relationships, and emotional responses. Sometimes what feels like a spiritual struggle is connected to unresolved grief that has never fully been processed.

Why Is It So Hard to Believe God Truly Loves You?

One moment from this episode that stayed with me was when Chris shared that someone once told him, “God adores you,” and it almost sounded unbelievable to him. Even though he knew scripture and had gone through seminary, he still struggled to emotionally believe that God genuinely delighted in him. He talked about how counseling and healing relationships slowly helped him recognize how distorted his view of God had become over time. I think many believers intellectually understand grace while emotionally living as though God is constantly disappointed in them.

What Does Healing From Religious OCD Actually Look Like?

Toward the end of our conversation, Chris shared that he intentionally structures his life in ways that “annoy” his OCD every single day. As a pastor, husband, and father, he refuses to let fear isolate him from the very things God has called him to pursue. Instead of waiting until every intrusive thought disappears, he continues showing up for relationships, community, ministry, and growth anyway. I think that picture of healing is incredibly important because recovery is not always about eliminating fear completely. Sometimes it looks like learning how to keep moving forward while trusting God in the middle of the uncertainty.

If you’ve ever struggled with intrusive thoughts, fear surrounding salvation, or feeling emotionally disconnected from God’s love, I really encourage you to listen to the full episode.

Connect with Pastor Chris here:

www.officialchrisrusso.com

Transcript

Carrie: Okay., Chris, welcome to the podcast today, and just tell, give us a brief overview of who you are.

Chris: Yeah. So,, I’m Chris Russo, and I live in the Charleston, South Carolina area., I’ve been a pastor for about 20 years. I’ve got three sons who are,, one actually just turned 16 today. Okay. So I’ve got a 16-year-old, a 14-year-old, and a 10-year-old, and my wife Abby and I are coming up on 20 years of marriage in January.

Chris: So yeah.,,, I’ve been pastor… I’ve been the lead pastor of a church for about three years, and before that I was on staff at Seacoast Church,, in the Charleston area for about 18 years. So,, yeah, I became a Christian when I was in college, and that was a crazy experience and it’s been a, it’s been a cool journey.

Carrie: Awesome. A wild ride ever since.

Chris: Yes.

Carrie: Yeah. So tell us a little bit about, like, your OCD story in terms of when did you, the symptoms come out and when did you make the connection like, “Oh, hey, this is what’s actually going on,” and

Chris: Yeah, so I think that probably,, it initially started when I lost my mom at age nine to cancer.

Chris:, I, I think it, it was at that point that I subconsciously adopted a script that the world is a really scary place that can take anything from you at any time. But I wouldn’t say I was really… I, I u- throughout middle school and high school, I used so many numbing techniques when it came to any anxiety.

Chris: And on, on top of that, mental health lingo, at least I,, growing up in Connecticut, really wasn’t, like, a popular thing. Like, I don’t even know that I knew about anxiety until later on in life. So even though there may have been some prevalence throughout middle and high school, I would say,, it really started actually when I became a Christian.

Chris:, I, I wouldn’t say it necessarily started, but it really showed up in force because I stopped, I stopped the drugs. I stopped,,,, I stopped the use of pornography. So I stopped a lot of the numbing agents that I was previously using, and then I really didn’t ha- I mean, all of a sudden, I’m starting this walk with God without these crutches that I’d used for so long, and these struggles started coming, what felt like out of nowhere.

Chris: Yeah. And then it wasn’t… And so I became a Christian when I was 18, and, and I wasn’t diagnosed with OCD by a psychiatrist until I was 27. I mean, it wa- it was a hard road.

Carrie: Yeah. I’m sure., what were some of the, like, themes that,, have come out for you that you struggled with?

Chris: So the first one, I mean,, I didn’t grow up…

Chris: Like, I grew up,, going to Catholic church once a year. So I mean, I went to catechism, but I, I was not a practicing Catholic. I had no real relationship with God. I,, I would pray that I would sink a putt on the golf course or win a baseball game., but it was when,… And sorry, repeat the question.

Chris: I just wanna make sure I understand it.

Carrie: Yeah., like what are some of the themes that you dealt with?

Chris: Yeah. So as soon as I became a Christian, I was so filled with life like I had never felt before. But as I was reading the Bible, I had no previous understanding of scripture. So I’m like, I went from a worldview, and I don’t think a l- a lot of people that didn’t grow up in church can really appreciate this.

Chris: I went from an agnostic, like maybe there’s something out there, maybe there’s a God, maybe there’s heaven, that thing- Mm-hmm… to reading this Bible, talking about heaven and hell, and angels and demons, and all this stuff that I really,, didn’t even believe in 20 seconds ago. And then I started coming across scriptures that through, for a variety of reasons, started to feel like, “Wow, there, maybe there’s a possibility that I could lose this wonderful salvation, this wonderful relationship with God that I just received.”

Chris: So the major theme that I felt like would never end was the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Like, I just, I didn’t understand it really, but to me, I felt like I had stumbled across a crack in the salvation landscape. And it didn’t matter who I talked to. I would talk to as,, I would seek reassurance from pastors and as many people as I could.

Chris: And no matter who I talked to, and no matter what theology text I saw, there was still something that was like you could ste- It felt, it felt like, honestly, as silly as it sounds, it felt like you could step on a crack and break your mother’s back. I felt like I had to tiptoe around God because somehow, and it’s a terrible Trinitarian view, but somehow I’m like, “Okay, the Father is really loving.

Chris: Jesus still creeps me out because all the stained glass windows that I saw growing up, he was never smiling. He never seemed happy.” So I was always, like, a little freaked out about Jesus. But the Holy Spirit, I’m like, “Apparently, he’s, like, the really sensitive member of the Trinity, and if you say the wrong thing to him, he’s gonna peace out and you go to hell forever.”

Chris: So I was terrified of the Holy Spirit.

Carrie: Mm-hmm. Yeah, and, and you can joke about it now, but, like, when you’re in the midst of that, like, storm, it feels, like, so super real. Like, this is, like, this is really, really bad. And, and I think that that’s interesting, that parallel between losing your mother and at a very young age, which,, impacts you profoundly developmentally, and then this sense of,, now I’m afraid that I’m gonna lose God.

Carrie: I’m gonna lose this, like, really positive connection that I have, and, and childhood taught me basically that things could be ripped away from you, and now,, there’s this parallel over here that,, my relationship with God could be ripped away. Like, how do you feel like losing your mom and, and maybe some other things that you went through as a result of that affected your view of God?

Chris: Yeah,, that’s a really interesting insight you brought up that I remember– I’ve been in,, professional counseling now for,, about 10 years, but that insight that you just brought up, I mean, I can’t remember how many counselors have told me, like, “Chris, like, it happened to you.” Like, everything was ripped away so quickly that, — A-and just drawing the connection between that and that fear, like, it,, I, I still– I, I wouldn’t say I’ve worked through that, but I would say that definitely made me feel– I think that sort of, and I really don’t understand it, but I would say that sort of primed me for feeling like, yeah, like, this, this could happen.

Chris: It has happened, and I don’t think I sub– I don’t think I consciously, like, logged as a nine-year-old- Sure… like, everything could be taken away from you, but su-, however subconscious priming works, I think that, that developed,, a mindset or a defense mechanism in me where it’s like, yeah, the most important things in your life can be stripped away regardless of what they are.

Chris: So,, don’t,,, don’t,, don’t get too excited. Don’t allow yourself to enjoy or to really rest in anything because it’s probably not gonna last.

Carrie: Yeah. I think a lot of people,, buy into that, to that lie. Like, don’t, don’t hope too much, don’t get too excited, don’t feel too good because it’s,, just– it’s all gonna be dashed and all gonna be taken away.

Carrie:, so h- tell us about, like, your view of God, like from this really fearful lens, it sounds like,, to a more loving father heart of God view.

Chris: Yeah. So it’s,, it’s definitely been a journey. So I would s– I remember actually being at a worship service one time, and this lady came up to me. And this is when I started to– One of the moments when I started to realize that I had a really,, warped view of God.

Chris: I remember her coming up to me in this service. Her name was Migsy, and she came up to me in service and she said, “God just adores you.” And I, I was probably in my twenties at that point. I’m forty-three right now. And I just remember how ridiculous that idea sounded, like God adoring you. I just felt like,,, like I was at a place right then that- E-even though, like, intellectually I sort of understood the gospel, I was at a place right then where I thought, “God’s definitely frustrated with me.

Chris: Maybe He’s rejected me. At best, He tolerates me, but adores?” Like, that sounded psychotic. And yet there was some deep resonance even when she said that, that felt like that was true, but why can’t I absorb that? And so– And then I,, once I started really seeing a Christian counselor, she told me that through the concoction that we’ve talked about, losing my mom,, not having a super close relationship with my dad growing up, that me receiving the gospel…

Chris: And she wasn’t trying to be mean to me. She was just like saying, “This is what we’re up against, like we’ve gotta drain the swamp.” She said a lot of the theology that I had voraciously taken in through seminary and,, a million books or whatever, it was like pouring water on a rock, that I just couldn’t receive it.

Chris: And so I started to realize that, okay, may… And that’s when I started to think, “Okay, maybe God is way more loving than I, than, than I can, than I can conceive of,” but it still was, like, a long time from that point to really actually believing that He, that He was truly loving. So, like, people would tell me things like, “Quote Matthew three seventeen,” like, “Hey, Chris, like, G-because of the gospel, God sees you as His, as His beloved son with whom He’s well pleased.”

Chris: And there’d be some part of me that, like, the, the ice would chip a little bit.,, I, I think I started to ask the question like, “Okay, God can be a great,…” G- I, I hear all these messages about how God can re-father you and all that stuff, but can God re-mother you? Like, I, like, that, I just didn’t hear that message, but I didn’t have any reason to think otherwise.

Chris: So then a passage like First Peter five seven, like that really, that really stuck to me. Like, “Cast all your anxiety on Him because He cares for you.” And I think that idea of God caring for me was really one that, that hit that maternal point where it was like, “Oh, like, so You’re, like, in the water with me.

Chris: It’s not, You’re not this austere God that sits on the far off side of some chasm or,, sees me drowning from the beach, hopes the best for me, maybe throw out a, a raft, but isn’t gonna come and, isn’t gonna come and get me.”, it’s actually funny. I do remember actually a vivid– I don’t have many memories of my mom, but I do have a vivid memory of I was like, I was probably like, I’ve always been short, but I was really short when I was growing up, and I was like in probably five feet of water, and I might’ve been five one or something like that, and I was like starting to drown, and my mom came into the water in a, in a full sundress and rescued me.

Chris: She’s the only one that saw me. It was a crowded pool. It’s random that, that, that came up. But yeah, so slowly but surely, and I think through some… I’ve had all female counselors, and I think that that’s been,, except for one. I’ve had all female counselors, and that’s been really restorative for God to work through.

Chris: Not,, I don’t think I like deified or idolized any of these women, but the, but God working distinctly through, the, these women to show me more of his caring, maternal qualities has all, ha- has all contributed to me feeling like, okay, God pursues. He’s close. He, He cares., but it’s still a struggle.

Chris: It’s still, like, one of those spots that I need more strengthening in, but I believe it. I’ve at least learned to doubt my doubts a little bit. Like, I know that when- That’s good… I know that when the tube of toothpaste gets squeezed,, when life hits, the storms hit and whatever, and I default to, “God, you probably don’t care,” I can at least flag it in my mind and say, “Wait a minute.

Chris: Hold on. That’s a familiar message. I don’t trust that. God, I know you care.” like a, “Lord, help my unbelief” moment.

Carrie: I think it’s one of the things I wanted to touch on, the seeing a counselor of the opposite sex because,, and I almost recorded an entire podcast episode on this one time and I ki- and I scrapped it.

Carrie: So I may run back to it at some point or another, but I think that in,, certain church circles, it’s very taboo. It’s like, if you’re a man, you need to see a man. If you’re a woman, you need to see a woman. And there are things that we can get from the opposite sex that we can’t get,, from the same sex.

Carrie:, the things that you’re talking about. Like, like, there were some type of, like, unmet needs that God really used these female counselors in a very professional and appropriate way to give, to show you that love and that caring, and I think that that’s so valuable., I know for myself, because of what I’ve just spoken at, I know that there are, are several men that have seen me and they’re like, “You’re my first female counselor,” and they’re just a little bit terrified about that.

Carrie: So I guess I wanna talk,, just throw that out there,, not to derail the conversation, but I think that that’s, that that’s important for people to know, like, it’s okay to see a counselor of the opposite sex as a Christian, and that can still be a really professional place for you to get certain needs met.

Carrie:, I went through, when I was going through trying to date again at,, post-divorce,, I saw a male counselor and it was incredibly helpful because I needed that opposite point of view,, in essence, and I needed him to speak certain things into my life that I don’t think I could have gotten from, from a female counselor.

Carrie: So I think that that’s, that… I, I believe that’s really beautiful that God,, used those people in your life for that purpose.

Chris: Yeah. Yeah. ‘Cause I think I’ve always responded pretty well. Not that, not that I d- haven’t– ’cause I’ve had male mentors before. Sure. Like, I’ve sought them out. So I’ve had,, restorative,…

Chris: And my relationship with my dad has gotten much better since when I was a, a hell-raising teenager., so I’ve had b- between him and a lot of,, male mentors, I’ve had those, those,… I’ve had my dad, I’ve had different father figures. But,, yeah, it– as I think about, it wasn’t like one day I set out and I’m like, “I need to see a female counselor.”

Chris: It was, it felt… I would say when I think back on each female counselor that I did see, it was pretty serendipitous in the way that I connected with them. Like, it was recommended. It was,, it, so I, it really felt provisional. It wasn’t– I don’t think I, there was some part of me that felt like I need to…

Chris: ‘Cause the approach in counseling in general, especially in the beginning, was such a mysterious realm for me. I mean, I’m thankful for– it, it feels like the church has really,, and the mental health community have really formed a closer relationship. But when I first was starting on this journey,, I, it, it felt very mysterious to me.

Chris: So there wasn’t some part of me that was like, that n- I didn’t have any idea what I needed. So I’m really thankful that I feel like God helped lead me to these different female counselors, because now in retrospect, I look back and I’m like, gosh, I really think them being females really helped in that,,, in that nurturing, that,, providing some things that maybe I couldn’t have gotten from a male counselor.

Chris: But that was not really an intentional, calculated decision on my part., that was more a, a provisional thing if it, when I really think about it.

Carrie: Yeah. I was thinking too, as you were talking about these,, female characteristics, how, like, Jesus said about Jerusalem, like, “I long to” something like, “I long to gather you like little chicks,, but you were unwilling,”?

Carrie: And, and just this picture of seeing their,, their need for God and their, their brokenness, and it’s like, “I really wanted to nurture you in that way.” I know in the Old Testament, there are some scriptures about,, comparing,, I’d have to look those up, but talking about, like, nursing and nursing mothers and things like that.

Carrie:, we’ll look those up and we may put that in the outro. But,,, there are, there are these pictures of God. So if your, if your view of God is this harsh, staunch, male, militant figure, it might be helpful for people to meditate on some of those other scriptures and really look into that.

Chris: Yeah, I, I think I would benefit more from that because it is, it’s super easy.

Chris: I mean, especially, I mean, and I won’t even start going through them ’cause I don’t wanna trigger anybody, but there are definitely passages of scripture that I… And I,, I just, my wife and I just read through the New Testament, and right now we’re doing a whole Bible plan, so I really try to, like, go th-, embrace God’s Word for what it is.

Chris: But there are definitely passages where I have to, that, that trigger that fear response of like, oh,. And I’ve just learned to just sorta like,,, allow the emotions to sit and not to just trust that the lens that I’m seeing them through, it must be the way that they are.

Chris: Because there are some times where I’m like, “Jesus, you seemed really harsh.” Like, there have been times where I’ve heard people talk about the Bible as a love letter, and ultimately I believe it is. I really do. But there are times where I hear people say that, and I’m like, “Have you read it?” Like- There’s

Carrie: a lot of people that die in there too, right?

Carrie: Yeah.

Chris: There are moments, there have been plenty of times where I’m like, “God, why did you provide this book that feels so scary?” But I,, as I learn the difference between exegesis and eisegesis, seeing what,, the difference between seeing what scripture actually says versus seeing what,, through my,, brokenness and my, my personality, my dysfunction,, all those different things, I’ve learned to not just take my initial gut reaction as gospel, so that, that, that’s really helpful.

Carrie: Yeah., we’re coming with our own lens that we often don’t realize that we have. And I, I can think of a, this is a non-biblical example, but I think it shows the point., the analogy is I watched a certain movie, and let’s say it was about some women that struggled in a time in America where there was, like, a lot more racism and,, different things that were happening that were clearly not godly.

Carrie: And I watched that movie and it,, it talks about these women’s struggle to overcome. My friend watched the movie and she said, “I couldn’t watch it all the way through.” She said, “I, I had to turn it off.” And I was like, “Why?” And she was like, “It was just, it was just too much,” like what they were going through was too much.

Carrie: And so she missed the, the overcoming piece and the inspiration, I think because of her own lens and her own probably experience with racism- Mm-hmm… and other things, that,, that was her, that was her lens of how horrible it was versus, hey, there were some things that were, that were overcame here, and there was a- actually, like, the whole point of the movie is to be inspirational, like that you can come o- overcome hardships.

Carrie: Yeah. And we, we bring, like, different lenses to, to the Bible, the lens of how our parents raised us, the lens of how,, that, the really harsh teachings that we have heard in the church,, and, like- You gotta, you gotta get it together. And, and unfortunately, I think like Like, I don’t know. I heard a lot of teachings growing up that it was like, it was almost like you gotta pull yourself up by your bootstraps, like the Christian version,?

Carrie: It’s like, get it together, get your spirituality together, stop playing games with God, that type of language. And I– it was like, “Oh, hey, here’s the gospel that saves you, but you get to sanctify yourself.” And I was like, a- as an adult now looking back on that, I’m like, what is that? That makes absolutely zero sense.

Carrie: Like, we have to kill the works-based sanctification and, like, it needs to die. Die. Because we have to be able to say, like, the same God that saved me by grace is purifying me. Like, and leading me to be more like Jesus with that same grace, and that same love, and that same fruit of the Spirit., he’s not sitting there going, “Gosh, Jeri, can’t believe you really messed it up today.”

Carrie: He’s like, “Yep, you need me more today.”? “Here I am.” I’m like, “Yes, I messed up again. Thank you. Like, I need, I need you to, to rescue me once again and tell me what I need to do differently so I don’t fall into the same hole that I keep falling into.” Amen. Cool process.

Chris: Yes. Amen.

Carrie: Yeah., talk with us about, like, just other things that, that…

Carrie: So I think what we’re– Sorry, let me re-say that. I think what we’re learning from your story is, like, there’s been a lot of healing in community, which I think is, is a really beautiful thing. As picture of the church, you’re a pastor. Mm-hmm. We’ve got more people,, not showing up at church than ever before.

Carrie: Look, COVID’s over, y’all. Stop trying to phone it in online, okay? Like, find a local body and get in there. That’s my, that’s my little soapbox. But because we need that, like, face-to-face, like, we need to hug some believers on a Sunday. Like, we need people who are gonna text us a scripture on, like, a Tuesday morning and be like, “Hey, I was thinking about you, and God gave me this verse, so I just wanna share this encouragement with you.”

Carrie:, we need those people that are gonna,,, show up and say, like, “Here’s a meal,” or, “Let me pray for you as you’re going through this hard time.”, and, and even if they don’t understand the OCD piece of your story, they’re just so important for us to have that biblical connection and community.

Carrie: And so I just really encourage people, if you’re not there at that point, like in your, in your walk with God, that you look,, continue that church search, show up, visit,, check, check things out. Yes. Meet some people. Don’t– And don’t just show up and leave and sit in the back row of a mega church and never get in a small group and never serve anything and never,, never get to know anybody.

Carrie: That’s To me, that’s not church either. I’m glad that people are showing up and doing that, and hopefully that’s a step on the front porch to get them all the way into the door.? We would like to, like, keep, like…, I think we just have this distorted view of what, what it means to be, I don’t know, in the church almost.

Carrie: It’s like, it’s not just about being in the building and sitting on the back pew. It’s about really being involved in the community, and that’s where these healing relationships can happen., and, and so I love that about, about your story and this, like, the mental health piece as well was really important for you.

Carrie:, a- anything else that has really helped shift some of the OCD for you? Like, are, are you just more aware of, like, when it comes around now?

Chris: Yeah, there’s been– I mean, gosh, I, one thing I am on is a learner, and so I,, I love…, there are times where I’ve gotten discouraged, and I think in the beginning of my journey, I felt like I had this thing that– and I didn’t know what it was, and even when it was labeled OCD, I,, I can’t tell you the number of men’s hikes or,, prayer sessions that I just thought God’s gonna take it away.

Chris: And once I started to,, embrace that this was gonna be more of a, a road and a journey that I was gonna be delivered through rather than from,, I would say there have been moments and I– that occasionally still resurface where I’ve gotten, I don’t know if jaded’s the right word, but discouraged, felt,, felt moments of despair like, gosh,, life would…

Chris: I can’t even imagine what life would be like without this,, gorilla on my back. But at the,, where I’ve gone in healthier moments and that has been, that has kept me, I, I tend to be a,, I don’t know how many Enneagram followers there are out there. I am a seven and I,, I d-, and hopefully a somewhat healthy seven, so the joyful, the joyful person.

Chris: And, and I do tend to be optimistic and I am, and I am a learner. So,, as I connect to,,, podcasts like yours and,, I’ve, and all kinds of,, different books,, on this,, not just on this subject but,, different apps that help me to slow down,, that help me to,, rest in God’s love.

Chris: I’ve really found that there’s,, a lot of gold to be dug up in this journey and so I’ve found,, like you said, healing relationships and I’ve, I, I don’t know if this is– I don’t know how healthy or prescriptive this is. This is just what I’ve done. I’ve got, like if I told you every… Like I’ve got a spiritual director who’s also, she’s also a licensed counselor but she serves as, as a spiritual director.

Chris: I’ve got a Christian counselor. I’ve got a couple of different men’s groups that I’m in. Like I’ve got so many,, between exercise and worship music and just encouraging voices I have in my life, I feel like I just have tried to turn the volume up so high on,, on the, on positivity, on God’s Word that,, not that it makes the OCD go away and there are still really tough days,, but I just have felt like I just am like, what?

Chris:, I’m, I’m not gonna back down. I’m gonna feel the fear and I’m gonna try to steer into the things that I’m afraid of. Like, honestly, as a pastor, I feel like there, and having kids, like, there’s a lot about my life, like if I were to go along with the OCD, I would sequester myself. If I did what, like just what the OCD wanted me to do, like being a pastor would be the worst idea ever.

Chris: Like, I would sequester myself. I would be alone. I probably wouldn’t have kids. I don’t know that I’d be married, and I would stay away from every environment I couldn’t control. Hmm. So I, I feel like I’ve really structured my life to shortcir- Like the, the OCD, I, I would say I, and I w- I, I don’t think I’ve ever said it like this before, but sort of intentionally, I annoy my OCD every single day.

Chris: I like it. Like my life is structured around annoying my OCD. So,, a- and, and I’m thankful for that. Even though there are days where I’m just like, “I wanna just go along with it, hide alone in a room, stay in a protective bubble, and never interact in any environments I can’t control.” I’m like, my life is structured to,, upset the OCD.

Chris: ‘Cause I fundamentally, I mean, as much as I’ve learned about from the physiological side of neuroplasticity to the emotional, mental side, I’m like,, and even, yeah, I mean, just knowing that Jesus overcame the grave itself, I’m like, there is nothing… And not to be like overly preachy, but I just am like, I fundamentally know that you can overcome this, God.

Chris: And I’m like, “I don’t know how it’s gonna happen, and I don’t know what the process is gonna look like, but I’m not gonna stop putting myself out there.”

Carrie: Yeah. Yeah. That’s so great. I think that’s such a great,, witness for the people who are listening to say, “I’m not gonna let OCD get in the way of my values and pursuing what I know God has for me,” whether that’s parenting or wait, ’cause somebody needs to hear that.

Carrie:, or whether that’s,, sharing the gospel with other people, or whether that’s speaking on a stage. Like, whatever that, that looks like that people know, hey, God’s calling me to this. Just having that sense of,, in righteous, indignant anger of like, “Not today, OCD.” Nope. Like, “It is not happening. We are gonna,, fulfill and walk in, in what God wants us to do.”

Carrie: Well, that’s, that’s awesome., it sounds like,, for you recovery looks like engaging in all these positive things that are gonna be helpful for you, whether that’s,, exercise,, mentorship, and having other people pour into you., being really honest about where you’re at.

Carrie: I think that that’s great.

Chris: Yeah, it’s, it,, it’s, it continues to humble me. Nothing, I, I, I haven’t fully adapted the whole, like, this is the thorn in my side, like,, 2 Corinthians 12. But,, it, nothing draws me to my knees more. And,, I’m not… I wouldn’t say I’m, like, so thankful for that.

Chris:? Like, I wish there were,, I,, but at the same time,, I, it, it is really humbling, and I’m thankful. And I, and I will say, I am thankful for the number of times it’s brought me to the feet of Jesus saying, like,, I think it was C. S. Lewis that said something like, “Some of our questions are like asking God is yellow a circle or a square?”

Chris: Or how many hours are in a mile. And I’m like, sometimes that’s my brain. I’m like, I’m going to God, and I’m like, “I recognize that I am so confused. I’m asking the wrong questions,” and I’m, like, going to the doctor, and I’m like, “I just need you to do whatever it is in my life that you wanna do, and I’ll follow you no matter how ridiculous the road may feel because I fundamentally don’t know what’s wrong with me.

Chris: And so whatever you wanna prescribe, I am open.” And that’s the mentality I try to embrace.

Carrie: Yeah. Awesome, awesome. Well, thanks so much for,, sharing your story with everybody today. I’m glad that you, you found the podcast and- Mm-hmm… got connected., I think it’s gonna be encouraging for others.

Chris: I hope so.

90. My Experience with Faith, Church and OCD with Erika McCoy

Written by Carrie Bock on . Posted in OCD, Personal Testimony, Podcast Episode. No Comments on 90. My Experience with Faith, Church and OCD with Erika McCoy

On today’s episode, I’m joined by Erika McCoy, an IOCDF grassroots advocate to talk about her experience with Church, Faith and OCD.

Episode Highlights:

  • How did her OCD develop and why it took a long time for her to get diagnosed.
  • Traumatic experiences that triggered her OCD and how she coped with them.
  • Dealing with her pastors’ and friends’ reactions to her OCD
  • What OCD taught her about life and her faith.
  • Her advocacy work at International OCD Foundation

Episode Summary:

In this Episode 90 of Christian Faith and OCD, I’m joined by Erika McCoy from Kansas City, Missouri, as she shares her personal journey with OCD and her advocacy work. Erika opens up about her struggles with OCD, from initial misdiagnoses to finding effective treatment, and the critical support she’s found through the International OCD Foundation.

Erika’s story sheds light on the challenges of dealing with OCD within faith communities, where misconceptions and unhelpful advice can often prevail. She contrasts these experiences with the supportive responses she’s encountered, emphasizing the need for understanding and compassion from faith leaders. Erika and I discuss how faith communities can be more supportive by recognizing their limitations and walking alongside individuals in their struggles, rather than rushing to offer solutions.

Our conversation also explores Erika’s personal experiences with uncertainty and trauma, including the prolonged illness of her father and the unresolved disappearance of her aunt. These experiences have taught her invaluable lessons in navigating uncertainty and finding peace amidst unanswered questions.

Tune in for an inspiring conversation that underscores the importance of empathy, understanding, and perseverance in the journey with OCD and faith.

Related links and Resources:

Erika’s Instagram

IOCDF

More Episodes to Listen to:

108. OCD Personal Story with Michael Kheir

Transcript

Carrie: Welcome to Hope for Anxiety and OCD episode 90. I am your host, Carrie Bock and here we are all about reducing shame, increasing hope, and developing healthier connections with God and others. A little note since we recorded this episode is at the date for the faith and OCD conference that Erika is gonna talk about today is actually on May the first, not May, the eighth, and we will put that link in the show notes for you guys if you’re interested in attending.

Today I’m very excited to be here with Erika McCoy from Kansas City, Missouri and she’s gonna talk with us about her personal story of dealing with OCD as a Christian and in the church, some unhelpful things that have happened and some later on, helpful things that have happened in support that she’s gotten at this point, and her advocacy with the International OCD Foundation.

Welcome.

How Erika’s OCD Developed and Why it Took a Long Time for Her to Get Diagnosed

Erika: Hi. Yes, I’m Erika and I’m from born in St. Louis, but my family moved here when I was three years old. So pretty much this is my hometown. And I remember having symptoms of OCD when I was about eight, just from my memory and I did not get diagnosed until I was 24.

Carrie: Wow.

Erika: And yeah, it was a long time.

Carrie: That’s a long time.

Erika: It took a long time. I think it’s about it’s almost average. I know, I think the statistics are anywhere from 11 to 17 years from people when they first start showing symptoms. But a lot of people I talk to now since getting better, they’re getting treatment a lot earlier. That is really exciting news to hear.

I was diagnosed about eight years ago and Kansas City is a pretty big metropolitan area. But there was not a lot of great treatment options. So I was hospitalized the first time when I was 14, but they did not diagnose me with OCD. I think it was a general panic disorder is what I was diagnosed with.

Carrie: Do you think they just didn’t ask all of the questions? Is that how they missed it, or were there certain thoughts or themes maybe, that you were scared to share and you were like, oh, I don’t wanna tell them that that’s really going on?

Erika: I mean, when I look back at it, I feel like it was pretty obvious. I mean, they asked me to put things on scale from one to 10, and my biggest thing was being late or being on time.

And then of course, that’s also when I went to a different high school, a private school. My parents were really big on making sure I was going to a Christian private school. And I went to a private school that was a different faith tradition and that is when the first time that somebody, a priest there told me that I was going to go to hell just because I was a different faith tradition than faith that I was at and that really just rocked my mind. I mean, I just could not believe that was my grand offense and I was gonna be doomed to hell for that. There were some other things that were going on with me at that time.

Carrie: Like a different denomination of Christianity. You went from one denomination to another and all of a sudden it was like, you’re going to hell. Because you don’t believe these exact things here.

Erika: Yes. My family didn’t think it was that big of a deal and I didn’t either, but I went from Luther to Catholic. But Martin Luther is the one that originally broke away from the Catholic church. I guess they’re kind of salty about that.

Carrie: They’re still upset about it.

Erika: Yeah. And they’re doctrine. I don’t know. I’m not trying to like put any other faith down or anything like that. That’s just what happened in.

Carrie: With your particular experience. Yeah.

Erica: There was a lot of other things happening at that time. My father, they said that he had six months left to live and I mean, it was just a lot of things happening at once. What sent me into like a total breakdown at that point in time was my therapist was late. I mean just like five minutes late. It wasn’t even a big deal, it was just five minutes. But that caused me to go down into like a total spiral. Thought the world was ending cause my therapist was late and that’s totally irrational.

And I just felt like I was gonna die. I just looking back on it, I’m just like, what’s going on? And then when I was in the hospital from a scale of one to 10, 10 is World War 3 and one is nothing. What is being on top? How important is, or what is the offense of being late? And I was like, oh, definitely World War 3. And I don’t know, I mean, to me that’s obvious that that’s like OCD, but they did not diagnose with it at that time.

Carrie: They just thought that you were really into punctuality and then that was just a high priority for you?

Erika: Yes. Just a high-priority thing.

Carrie: So do you have any family members that were super, like, we gotta be on time? Was that a thing when you were growing up? You could get in big trouble for.

Erika: My dad. There’s a certain percentage, I don’t know, that have the genetics factor for OCD. My father had it. He passed away. My mother has it, my aunt on my maternal side who passed away as well, and my grandfather on my mom’s side as well.

Carrie: Okay. Yeah. So it’s definitely running through the family there.

Erika: Yes. But my dad was very big. He would always stay all the time that saying, if you’re early, you’re on time. If you’re on time, you’re late. And if you’re late, you might as well not even show up at all and he would say that all the time to me. I don’t know that was just a big thing and my dad had a lot of things like that, and he was also in the military. It was very much a military run house.

Carrie: A lot of rigidity

Finding Help for Her OCD

Erika: When I grew up. I finally found a psychiatrist that got my diagnosis right when I was 24. And that was a sigh of relief, and I was hospitalized again at 24, and then I had to do three different intensive outpatient hospitalizations.

They didn’t do ERP, but the CBT cognitive behavioral therapy helped quite a bit for what it was. But as far as finding a therapist, my psychiatrist knew a lot about OCD. I had to work with my psychiatrist, not on a super regular basis because he’s psychiatrist and very busy, but he gave me the tools and he did psycho-analytical therapy on me to help with OCD.

He taught me what ERP was and then I got like the my OCD at workbook and I kind of had to do a lot of the exposure response stuff by myself, which I do not recommend. Do not do that.

Carrie: That was overwhelming for you to not have the support of therapists or somebody else to do it with you.

Erika: Yeah, like an actual trained clinician, like a weekly basis and do that. I mean, it was very touch and go for me. Because I could only meet, meet him once a month.

Carrie: But you’re not the only one I’ve heard that from. I’ve heard several other people say, oh, I tried to find a therapist in my area that was versed in OCD either didn’t have connection with that person, or I couldn’t find somebody that had some kind of proper training or proper experience level in order to help me through this. We had a guest on very early in the show, Mitzie Van Cleve. I don’t know if you’ve ever heard of her. She’s done quite a bit of writing on OCD and Christianity’s Scrupulosity.

She had said, “I tried to find a therapist for a long time and essentially I looked online and watched videos and used workbooks” and kind of had to do a lot of the imaginable exposures on herself in order to get the help that she needed. I don’t think that your story is incredibly uncommon.

It’s a sad state of affairs, and I think that’s why we’re talking so much about this in terms of increasing awareness is people are literally suffering for years without help, without even knowing what they’re struggling with. And then when they do finally figure it out, it’s, there’s this uphill battle to try to get the help that they need. And I hate that for this community. It’s not good at all.

Erika: I was relieved when I got diagnosed, because honestly, at that point in time I thought I was really losing my mind going insane. I had this, I mean, it was irrational, but I really thought I was gonna end up locked away in some sort of 19.

Carrie: Institution or something.

Erika: Institution or something. Like, I really had no idea. I mean, I knew what OCD was. I have no idea it could get that bad. I was really relieved when I found out that I had OCD thankfully. But now though, in my area, it’s on the Kansas side, but there is a Kansas City Anxiety Institute or something like that. That just got accredited for OCD.

So I mean, making waves now, which I think is really great for the people that get diagnosed and I’m talking about eight years ago.

Carrie: Sure.

Erika: It’s, it’s been a long way. A lot of progress have been made.

Church and Community Response to OCD

Carrie: Yeah. Tell us about the church’s response to OCD. I’m sure there’s some people that kind of just, they just don’t really know how to respond when you share that with them.

What are some unhelpful and helpful things that you’ve experienced in terms of trying to connect with faith community as a Christian?

Erika: Sure. In my blog that I wrote, I didn’t totally stay away for 16 years, but I did not go to church for 16 years because I was having really intrusive, horrible thoughts.

These things that were happening in my life, my aunt going missing, being murdered, having to take care of my dad that had abused me my whole entire life. All these things that were happening were rightful punishments from God. For something that I’m not quite sure of what I did, I mean, I know we’re, I’m a sinner and I know I’ve done bad things.

I mean nothing like terribly bad because we’re all sinners. And so I kept wrestling with this fact that I know I’m not perfect. I know I haven’t done the right things all the time, but what have I done that’s so horrible for God just to keep punishing me with these things. Thing after thing after thing in that 16 year break when I was just really felt really scared and I didn’t know it was going on.

I would go to certain, sometimes it was Christian friend. Sometimes it was different pastors, different elders, stuff like that. And I would go to them and kind of, I mean, not tell them everything cause I knew that would probably be too much, but just a little bit of what was going on in my mind. And they were a little shocked.

I mean, the first reaction out of a lot of people is that I had some sort of spiritual battle going on with inside my mind or my prayer life wasn’t doing well, or I had some really bad experiences of people telling me I had demons inside my brain.

Carrie: Which of course is terrifying person to tell you that.

Erika: Absolutely terrifying. Because that was also one of my really horrible what ifs. When you have OCD people say, it’s also known as the doubting disorder. And for someone that has the religious scrupulosity theme to it. My mind, I was having these horrible thoughts of God punishing me, and then I was also worried that maybe Satan was taking over my life. When you go to a religious leader and then they are confirming.

Carrie: Your greatest fear at that point.

Erika: I don’t know how to explain that. Right? Oh, okay. Maybe I am, I don’t know. If this person that is really knowledgeable in these things confirms that to you. I mean, it’s, oh my goodness, maybe that is what’s happening.

I don’t know. That’s what really terrified me and scared me. And I would just try everything. I was praying. They were like, how’s your prayer life? Not knowing, obviously that prayer was a compulsion of mine. I would just keep praying more repeatedly. Are you reading your Bible right? I mean, I would read my Bible so much.

I was reading because reading my Bible is also compulsion. And I guess my thing is that I have a lot of empathy for faith leaders. Because I know that people come to them with outrageous amount of things, all problems, all the time. And I mean that is part of their job description.

That is part of their calling in life is to be there for people. I don’t want it to seem like I’m really coming down too hard on them and I don’t want them to be shut off when they hear these things because they can’t be a knowledgeable in all things with everything. Or they’d be God all knowing they just can’t be all those things. But I think a lot of, a little bit of knowledge can go a long way.

Carrie: Right

Erika: To me I sit around sometimes and listen to people talk, and when they start going a little too far, I’m just kinda like, “oh, maybe we need to investigate that a little bit, get a little bit further into that.” But I guess when I think about the things that I said to different faith leaders of my past, I just wish maybe they would’ve been like, “Hmm, maybe we don’t bring up statement in this situation.”

I haven’t been too seminary or anything like that, but maybe demon possession is real. Maybe it’s not. There’s that uncertainty there. Maybe, maybe not, but for me, I was born this way. It’s a genetic thing for me. That means that God made me this way. He knit me in the womb this way. He knew this was gonna happen.

We’re all made in his image. So there’s something about me and the people like me that deal with this. He’s wanting to bring delight and we all deserve. I mean, it’s just like the beatitude. We all deserve to have a beautiful, meaningful walk with Christ despite all these other things. And I wanna get across to faith leaders, other Christians, even though you don’t understand it.

Just a little bit of knowledge can go a long way and really help people get past their issues that they can’t control bring us all back to worshiping God.

Carrie: I think you just spoke to it right there. We’re on a journey with our faith. It’s a walk, and I think sometimes as Christians, we’re so concerned with getting people to a certain destination more so than we are of walking with them as they’re wrestling and as they’re going through the process.

And for some reason in the church, we’re terrified to say, I don’t know. I’m not sure why that is because I’m sure there were plenty of people in the Bible who at the end of the day, if you read the Psalms and you read the scripture, They didn’t know, they didn’t fully understand everything. And somehow in this context we go, okay, somebody has a problem.

I have the Bible, I have Jesus. There has to be a solution. Okay, let me give them a solution. And it’s this almost like this pressure that we put on ourselves. Instead of just saying like, Erica, I can see that you’re really struggling with this. Let me pray for you. I’m not even sure how to support you through this.

How can I support you through this? I don’t know that I have all the answers that you’re searching for, but I want you to know that I care about you and I love you. I think if we could get that response out of our faith leaders, that would be so much more helpful than trying to dig through all of the nuances of everything that’s going on.

And I think that’s why so many of the stories in the Bible bring me comfort because we forget. We know the end of their story. We know what happened to Joseph in the end. He didn’t know what was gonna happen to him in the middle when he’s in jail or when he’s a slave. He didn’t know that he was gonna have a beautiful ending and that he was gonna be reunited with his family in that same way.

We’re all in the middle of our story somewhere and we don’t know how things are gonna work out a lot of times. Talk with us about how you learned to maybe sit with some of the uncertainties or the mysteries of your faith that you experienced.

What Erika Learned from Her OCD and Her Life Experiences

Erika: Well, yeah, for sure. I think whether you have OCD or not, what I’ve learned is a lot of people have a hard time, just like you said, not knowing they want answers and they want them now.

I think life has just taught me along with having to go through the therapy that treats OCD or at least make living with life with OCD easier to live. That helped me. And then also just the experiences of my life. Nobody has an easy life. I’m not gonna pretend that is the case. There’s just been some circumstances in my life that is just, Or when I look back, it’s just like, “Why? What is happening here? Even with my father, the doctors told us when I was 14, he had six months to live. My dad did not end up passing away. I was 24.

Carrie: Wow. That’s a big discrepancy from what they originally told you.

Erika: For a long time, all of us were just always so constantly worried and we need to spend all the time we can. We have to do everything we can for him cause he is right at this door. Constantly. Every surgery he went into, we had to say goodbye to him as if it was the last time we were gonna see him. And I can’t even tell you how many surgeries he had between 14 to 25. I mean, we had to go and say goodbye to him, and that is not what happened.

That taught me a lot about sitting with uncertainty and not knowing when someone’s gonna go in that case. And then with my aunt, we actually were having a fight when this happened. I had not talked to her for eight months before she went missing. I think people, they disconnect from family members for all sorts of different reasons, right?

That’s a normal thing when, dynamics become unhealthy, sometimes we have to put boundaries in and disconnect. And that’s a healthy thing. One would never think that your loved one would go missing during that time. But that is what happened with my Aunt. And then it took seven months to find her body. And then normally how it goes when you find your missing loved one’s body, you get answers right away. At least some answers.

Carrie: This is what we think happened or this is who we suspect may have been involved or something.

Erika: Something like that. And that did not come and has not come and it’s been eight years. In May it’ll be eight years. That’s another thing that has, I’ve just been, I’m gonna say forced and I did a lot of things to try to find answers. I mean, I was always sharing her information, passing out fires constantly. I did a lot of things to try to bring awareness to that, and no matter what her other friends or other family members. Those answers have not come no matter how much we would like them to.

It’s just not the time and we’re just gonna have to wait it out and that took me a long time to be, I mean, I’m not okay with it, but just kind of like it is what it is.

Carrie: You’ve had to make peace with that at some level?

Connecting to God and Going Back to Church

Erika: Yeah, on some level. I mean, I can talk so I’m blue in the face and knock on doors and do all those sorts of things, and maybe it would make a difference, I don’t know. But at this point in time, I feel like I know the process and it’s gonna take whoever has intimate knowledge to come forward. And that is on them and God and the Holy Spirit working through them to wanna come forward with that. And it’s just outta my control. I don’t have anything to do with that. And then when it comes to my faith with all these different experiences in life, I was really scared when I first went back to church about two years ago because of the interactions I’ve had.

I just really didn’t with Christians and my Christian friends and stuff like that, and faith leaders. But you know, I just thought, been through all these crazy things. I’m still here and that’s gotta be for a reason. There’s gotta be a reason that I’m still here through all these things, and I’m still relatively unscathed.

I’m still attacked and I’m still doing pretty good here. I just really wanted me and my family to really have a connection with God, and I just went ahead and I was like, I’m just gonna do this. And the first church I went back to was actually really great in lots of ways. They gotta help plan Easter and help with their Facebook.

I mean, I did a lot of things that really brought a lot of value and that was the first time I prayed out, in front of a church. Let me tell you, it was not a great prayer. I was so scared to get up there and do that prayer. I think at the end I said, “well, anyway. Amen.”

Carrie: That’s okay.

Erika: It was an awkward prayer.

Carrie: God understands. It’s alright.

Erika: But I did it. It was a great place for me to practice a lot of exposures and I was really thankful for that personally. There’s some problems, but that’s okay. It showed me that there was just a lot of, still a lot of things with OCD and misunderstandings. But I’m still really thankful cause I got to exposures and a smaller place of worship and just be who I am.

I was able to meet a lot of great people that are very loving and kind, and it really was a good place to the stepping stone. It also taught me to stick with it because honestly, if you would’ve talked to me, I don’t even know how long in my, I don’t wanna say my former self, but in the. If I would’ve done that and went through that, I would’ve been like, okay, we’re done here.

I’m never trying it again. Prior to treatment, I would’ve been, we’re done here. I tried. I gave it a good effort, but nope, I would’ve taken that as a sign that God doesn’t want me to be in church or something ridiculous. But because of the tools where I am in my mental health journey, where I am in my faith journey, I knew that I just had to keep going and eventually, even if it wasn’t the next one, I would find a place that would be where I’m supposed to be. No church is gonna be perfect. Okay we know that we’re all people. There’s lots of people interacting and that’s another thing to keep in mind to, but thankfully it was just one other church that I stopped at and it’s been a beautiful thing.

There’s a lot of really understanding people. At least all the people I’ve come across are very encouraging. They might not understand exactly what I’m talking about or what I’m going through, but they’re very encouraging, loving. I’ve even got some questions about what it is that I’m talking about. Not in like a weird, judgmental way or anything like that.

Carrie: Healthy curiosity.

Erika: It’s just a healthy curiosity. It’s just such an amazing feeling to go into a place after all the things, preconceptions, being scared and all those things. And to finally find a place that you can just be who you are and just be able to work on your relationship with God. Even if that means that you do some weird OCD things while you’re working on your ERP and not have to be worried about the judgment of others, and you can just focus on growing the relationship between you and God.

Carrie: I appreciate that message. I think for a lot of people who are disconnected from the church right now because they’ve experienced spiritual hurt or even abuse in some cases, and I appreciate that. Don’t give up on the body of Christ and don’t give up on yourself and the community. That could be really healthy in supporting you, and we’ve talked about that in various episodes on the show.

I think supportive faith communities can be really transformational, like you’re saying. I think we weren’t meant to kind of do this whole walk and journey alone. We need other people surrounding us and to know that God’s with you in guiding you and leading you to that place where he wants you to be. So that’s, I think that’s really encouraging to a lot of people.

Tell us a little bit about your advocacy work with, the International OCD foundation.

Erika’s Advocacy Work

Erika: With the International OCD Foundation. Do most of my work in the special interest group of faith and OCD. That’s where my passion is for sure. We have meetings. It’s been a little crazy right now because we’re leading up to the conference, the Faith and OCD Conference in May 8th. So we’ve been having a couple of extra meetings to plan out each month. So in January the theme was it’s not about faith, it’s OCD and so that’s where my article came out of. And then February, we’re gonna be highlighting having the healthy amount of doubt versus certainty because you know, in faith it’s okay to have doubt. It’s how that can be challenging with people with OCD to understand that healthy amount of doubt versus getting in the loop of uncertainties. That we’re working on that and they’ll be themes every month leading up to May.

And I am really excited about the conference for Faith in OCD. I haven’t gone to one in the past. Here’s the crazy thing, so I’ve technically been an advocate almost eight years. I was in such a bad place. I’ve just been following all these things, but I haven’t really been doing much. One of the other advocates said to me like, so crazy.

You’ve known about all this stuff for eight years and you haven’t gone yet. And I’m like, no, but this year is the year. Okay, I’m gonna do these conferences. I’m gonna go to the.

Carrie: And that’s online isn’t it?

Erika: Yeah, it’s a Zoom, a virtual one. The Faith in OCD website via the International OCD Foundation has a lot of great information on it. It even breaks down per faith tradition. There’s one for Protestants, Judaism, I believe. I don’t know, it just breaks it down for a whole bunch of different faith traditions for people to get information, which I think is great. I don’t know that much about interfaith. I’m a Christian and that’s where I have most of my knowledge in, but their website’s really great. There’s a lot of great resources for Christian. Lots of slides and also really great ways for faith leaders. You can print off different things and if you’re kinda less vocal or more shy, you can just print it off and hand it to your faith leader, which I love that because like not everyone is as vocal or want to have face-to-face conversations so you can just put in their mailbox and go upon your way. They definitely recommend that if anybody wants to spread knowledge to their faith leaders, you can just print that off and sign it under their door or whatever, and then just walk along your way and they might not even know where it came from.

So then what I’m doing for this month and the months coming up to May is that I’m doing a rocking your values, navigating faith and OCD in the community painting workshop. I like to paint rocks.

Carrie: That’s awesome. That’s a lot of fun.

Erika: I like to paint just about anything really, but last OCD week in 2022, I came up with this OCD advocacy initiative where teal is the color for OCD awareness. You paint the base of the rock teal, and then basically you can write OCD facts on it, or you can paint. I mean, I can pretty much see anything in a creative picture type of way, so I paint lots of little pictures, on mine. Some people are more left or right brain. I don’t know which one’s more analytical.

Carrie: Whatever works for people. Do what works for you, whether it’s like writing something on the rock or, I did some of that during the pandemic because let’s face it, we were all at home. I ordered a few supplies on Amazon and see what I can do with some rocks here that’s from a rock place near me.

They were like, “you can just have some of these.” And I was, “Are you serious? That’s great.”

Erika: I know I got 200 rocks donated to me. So I have plenty I can do plenty of these rocks. You paint them, you put your OCD facts on them to make it like an advocacy thing. I mean, you’re more than welcome to keep them if you want to, but I’ve done quite a few of them.

The last time I went on a road trip, every place I stopped, I left the rock. And then on the back it has, it says at International OCD Foundation. So if they Google that, it brings up the International OCD Foundation. It also has my Instagram tag on it, but people, not everyone wants that kind of information out there, but my Instagram tag is specific enough where if you Google that, it’ll bring up screw velocity.

So that brings up knowledge and then it also has the hashtag rocking your values, but also bring up different things. That’s something that I start in, but if more people get into it, it’s a great way to advocate. And you can be kind of introverted about it too. Cause you can just paint your rock and then just drop it somewhere and then a random person can, whether they know about OCD or not, can pick it up and get some knowledge about it.

Carrie: I love options for introverts because a lot of times they feel they’re not out there, they can’t make a difference, but there’s plenty of small ways that they could make a difference by just dropping something off by their pastor or by painting a rock and leaving it somewhere and directing it to some helpful information.

Sure, yes, introverts unite. That’s awesome.

Erika: I’m an introverted extrovert.

Carrie: I would consider myself that a little bit too. Yeah, I can have some extrovert tendencies when I need to, but then I also need to like hold off and recharge sometimes and not see anybody or talk to anybody. This has been a really great conversation.

 I probably feel we could go on for forever and ever, but one thing I like to ask my guests that are sharing a personal story is if you could go back and tell your younger self something, even your teenage self, something who is in the midst of all these difficult situations, what would you want her to know?

Erika: I guess the biggest thing would be that God loves you. Jesus loves you and the expectation to be perfect is not achievable, and just to have some compassion for yourself in the really hard times to come.

Carrie: Jesus was perfect. So we don’t have to be. That’s a nice realization for all of us, I think, that put pressure on ourselves or unrealistic expectations to achieve certain things.

We’ll put links to your article about your story and where people can find you on Instagram and so forth. If they wanna connect and find out more about painting rocks with you. That’s really cool.

Erica: Yes. I love that. Some people are like, “But I’m not a good artist.” Okay, well, one, I’m a firm believer that all art is good art. Okay. Even if you just make a little stick figure, or, I don’t even know what I remember art therapy was one of the big things that, well, it can be ERP I will say that, but art therapy is just so, so much for me when I was younger. And therapy doing collages and all these things. So for me, if you think you’re the worst artist ever, just trust the process, put a brush down on something and just let it go or make a collage, I don’t know. Just try it once. And just see how it feels. Just let it go and just try it once.

Carrie: Roll with it.

Erika: Yeah, roll with it.

Carrie: Erika and I had a short conversation off mic because I didn’t have a lot of time to ask her this when I was interviewing her about the connection between trauma and OCD since she mentioned several different traumatic events in the course of her talk. And it’s interesting to me, the more and more that I work with clients who have this overlap of childhood, also adulthood trauma and OCD symptoms is it seems like the trauma symptoms exacerbate the OCD symptoms which would make sense because when people are under stress, their OCD symptoms tend to flare up more.

So it’s just something to think about. If you’ve noticed in your own life that overlap between trauma and OCD, that getting some help for that trauma may help you as you’re trying to work through the OCD symptoms as well.

Hope for anxiety and OCD is a production of By the Well Counseling. Our show is hosted by me, Carrie Bock, licensed professional counselor in Tennessee.

Opinions given by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the use of myself or By the Well Counseling. Until next time, may you be comforted

Carrie: Erika and I had a short conversation off mic because I didn’t have a lot of time to ask her this when I was interviewing her about the connection between trauma and OCD since she mentioned several different traumatic events in the course of her talk. And it’s interesting to me, the more and more that I work with clients who have this overlap of childhood, also adulthood trauma and OCD symptoms is it seems like the trauma symptoms exacerbate the OCD symptoms which would make sense because when people are under stress, their OCD symptoms tend to flare up more.

So it’s just something to think about. If you’ve noticed in your own life that overlap between trauma and OCD, that getting some help for that trauma may help you as you’re trying to work through the OCD symptoms as well.

Hope for anxiety and OCD is a production of By the Well Counseling. Our show is hosted by me, Carrie Bock, licensed professional counselor in Tennessee.

Opinions given by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the use of myself or By the Well Counseling. Our original music is by Brandon Maingrum. Until next time, may you be comforted by God’s great love for you.