Tag: Inference-Based CBT

Carrie: Today we have a special personal story episode from Ashley Lawrence. Ashley made the decision to join the live ICBT training that I was doing about a year ago. For those of you who are new to the show, I run these trainings twice a. We are changing the name to Empowered Mind to really capture the transformation that people are experiencing.

Ashley decided to jump in and learn ICBT when she had difficulties finding a Christian therapist. In her area and really wanted someone who could understand scrupulosity and speak to it from a Christian perspective. Through the process of recording this episode and then further conversations, Ashley ended up actually becoming my virtual operations.

Administrative assistant, and she’s just been in that role since about the beginning of December. In fact, some of you may have conversed with her via email if you had questions about ICBT or setting up a consultation time with me. Ashley’s been instrumental in that process. If you’ve been wondering at all is this opportunity right for me, I really hope that Ashley’s story will help you make that decision prayerfully.

Hello and welcome to Christian Faith and OCD with Carrie Bock. I’m a Christ follower wife and mother. Licensed professional counselor who helps Christians struggling with OCD get to a deeper level of healing. When I couldn’t find resources for my clients with OCD, God called me to bring this podcast to you with practical tools for developing greater peace.

We’re here to bust through the shame and stigma surrounding struggling with OCD as a Christian, sharing hopeful stories of healing and helping you replace uncertainty with faith. I’m here to help you. Let go of the past and future to walk in the present abundant life God has for you. So let’s dive right into today’s episode.

Carrie: Ashley, welcome to the show and just tell us a little bit  about yourself. 

Ashley: Thank you so much for having me, Carrie. I’m super thankful for this opportunity. I’ll just start off by saying I am follower of Christ. I am a wife and a mother and an artist. I’m also a homeschool mom. I spend a lot of my days just.

Being with my kids and soaking in these years while they’re young and just having fun with that. So that fills a lot of my time. 

Carrie: Yeah, for sure. What types of OCD themes have you struggled with kind of through the years? 

Ashley: The main theme that I’ll probably hit on most today is scrupulosity. I’ve also struggled at times with contamination OCD and relationship OCD, but definitely not as heavily as pulos, which I feel like sometimes might be a lesser known theme of OCD.

At least it was for me when I first discovered what it was. 

Carrie: You understood you had OCD, like when contamination themes were coming up, it’s like, oh, this makes sense. This is what I perceive or have heard about OCD. But then when you started to have spiritual obsessions, did you just think like, oh, I’m just trying to figure some things out spiritually and didn’t really necessarily tie it to the ocd?

Ashley: Yes. And kind of talking about like OCD diagnosis. I was first self-diagnosed and that was just in the beginning of 2024. It was nine years of me kind of struggling, not even knowing it’s what I had. I thought I had just was dealing with a lot of anxiety and I would have this contamination stuff, but I thought, oh, I’m just like a germaphobe.

And yeah, that was definitely more if I were to say, oh, I have OCDI would’ve fallen into, I’m like a germaphobe and stuff. I would’ve never thought it was related to faith. And that’s really what I thought I was dealing with for all those years was faith problem. I never knew that OCD could kind of present itself, like with mental compulsions.

I thought it was a lot of hand washing and light switches and the things I saw on TV when I was younger about OCD. So when I finally learned that OCD can present itself with like these mental compulsions. Ruminating and intrusive thoughts, reassurance seeking and things like that was very freeing for me.

How did you find that out? It’s such a long story, but I’m gonna try to just keep it shorter here for us today, basically in the end of 2023, I hit rock bottom because like I said, I had been dealing with this OCD for years, never knowing what it was, and I think my brain and my body just got to a point where I couldn’t handle it anymore.

And I started dealing with like panic attacks, really bad. So it’s kinda like my body just couldn’t take it anymore. It was a really scary season. It was months of panic attacks and it made it really hard to drive in a car because that’s when they would come up. And then when that began happening, I said, I need to get to the bottom of this.

I need to figure out what the root of this is. So it led me down a path of just, I started kind of learning about panic disorder, but then just getting deeper. And as I was in that process, I stumbled across Ted Whittick on YouTube talking about OCD Scrupulosity, and as he began, it was like a 40 minute YouTube video.

I listened to the whole thing, then I had my husband listen to it and all of the symptoms he was talking about for Scrupulosity, I was checking every box and I was like, oh my gosh, I never heard this ever, like, it was a very positive thing for me. It was a very relieving thing because I was able to finally like identify what was going on.

Carrie: So you had been talking to your husband about these things and like trying to figure out the perceived faith problems and, yes. 

Ashley: For years, I guess I should say. So all started in 2015. I’ll kind of briefly just share my background. I grew up in a Christian home and I loved the Lord at a very early age. I experienced just the presence of the Holy Spirit and was taught the gospel from an early age, and so the Lord was always a part of my life, but I basically ended up in a season of backsliding.

It was around the time of 2015. Actually, lemme back up a quickly. When I was 18 years old is when as a more mature, full adult, I really recommitted my life to Jesus and just experienced him in a new way. Um, really began living for him as the Lord of my life. But some things had happened after that, and I ended up in a season of backsliding.

The Lord tells us that he chastens those whom he loves and he will discipline his children when we are going astray. And that’s what had happened to me. I experienced his discipline in my life. That was in 2015 when I kind of hit rock bottom. And along with that though, is when this introduction of the thought of I could have lost my salvation, or did I commit the un parable sin?

After that season of backsliding really entered, and I had never really considered that before. In all the years of knowing the Lord, I didn’t think that was ever a possibility. But in 2015, after that season of backsliding, I was reading the Bible and I came across some warning passages and Hebrews, which I’m sure you might be familiar with, other people I know have struggled with these things, and I read them and I thought that I lost my salvation.

I really thought I did. That began a season of just really, it was the lowest point in my life. It was very scary and there was a lot of anxiety. I had panic attacks. I couldn’t sleep, but the, in that place, I sought the Lord like I never had before. And so, God, like I said, he went after me and he didn’t allow me to continue on that path.

And it caused me to just seek him in a whole new way. And the Lord so graciously helped. To me through that time, through his word, so many passages in the Old Testament about his people being unfaithful and him telling them to return to him and of his forgiveness, especially like the Book of Hosea, all these places he ministered to me so much in that time.

But this fear, this possibility would just always come back. Did I commit the un parable sin? What if just this lack of assurance in my salvation and it would cause such internal distress. Because I didn’t know what I was dealing with and because it kept resurfacing, I thought, surely this is a problem with my faith.

The Lord must be so displeased with me because my faith is so weak. Like I keep becoming so fearful. I keep being so attacked with doubt. It was just like, it would be just an onslaught of doubt over my assurance, and even after the Lord spoke to me in his word and confirmed it through our pastor’s message.

Devotions and things like that just keep coming up. And every time I’d go to my husband and after a while it wore him down too because Sure, you’re his child, like he loves you. Like why is this happening again? So it was a lot of years of that. 

Carrie: I think what you’re highlighting here is a couple different things.

One OCD, using personal experience against you saying, oh, well look at what happened back here. And maybe that is an indicator of what’s going on right now when it’s not necessarily connected. And then the other piece was that doubt often follows some level of sensory information or assurance. So you would hear this message in church and be like, oh yeah, that’s God speaking to me, that I’m his and that I belong to him.

And then OCD comes along, it’s like, no, you need to doubt whether or not you’re saved. 

Ashley: Yes. And it will attack. What is most valuable, important to you? A lot of times is what I’ve learned about OCD since a child. Jesus was always like my foundation and such an important part of my life, and obviously eternity.

That’s an important thing. It definitely latched onto that and it’s like, well, if that is true, if you really did lose your salvation, my brain was firing off. This is extremely important. We need to worry about this. All these compulsions, which I can get into kind of what it looked like for me. ’cause I know that’s helpful sometimes for other people to hear like, oh, they’ve been through that too.

So it definitely latched onto that. And it was just years, yeah. Of me thinking this was a faith problem on my part. Kind of early into that. It was after I was married, so. It had already been years that I was dealing with that, but I found John Bunyan’s book, grace Abounding to the Chief of Sinners, I think, and I could barely read it because it kind of like gave me P-T-S-D-A little bit because the things in that book were so similar to the fearful thoughts I had had, whether it was blasphemous thoughts about the Lord.

Doubt, unbelief. John Bunion talked a lot about that, but I found it comforting in a way like, oh wow, 

Carrie: but also triggering. 

Ashley: He’s very got man, but it was triggering. So I kind of put that down and at that point I didn’t know yet that it was OCD. I just thought, again, issue, I don’t know where I should go here next.

Carrie: What were some of the compulsions that come up for you? Were you doing a lot of research? Were you like, did you have prayer compulsions? Were you like feeling like I’ve gotta pray the center of prayer every night before I go to bed, or, 

Ashley: yes, definitely. Rumination would be the first one. I would hear a message on a radio about like Pharaoh hardening his heart or judis or something like that.

And then my brain would just ruminate the whole day, like along with rumination, like internal checking. Do I sense the Holy Spirit in me? Do I sense the fruit of the spirit in me? How do I feel like, do I feel close to the Lord right now? That was a huge one for me, is feeling like, do I feel far from Jesus?

Do I feel like he’s there? We can’t go by feelings. It was a lot of that stuff. And then seeking reassurance. There were times where I did speak to my pastor and I think there’s a level of importance with that. Like I did have a season of backsliding. There are real spiritual things going on. That’s what makes it so hard is ’cause OCD just can intermix with that.

But I would talk to my pastor about it. Reassurance seeking to Googling, just searching the Bible. Tons of commentaries. What did this person think about this verse? More obsessively than the average person I would say. And then I would get intrusive thoughts. I remember one Easter morning at church, the message was so good, but the whole time I was just plagued by these intrusive, blasphemous thoughts.

There was a period where I just could not read the gospels because every time, like I saw Jesus’s word in red. There would just be intrusive thoughts attacking his words, and that was so difficult. It was a lot of that type stuff. And also, yeah, like if I did sin and just confessing that to the Lord, but getting kind of obsessive with it, feeling like, did I pray that right?

Did I confess that right? And just doing it multiple times and way more than an average Christian would do. So it was a lot of that. 

Carrie: Once you found out what Scrupulosity was, did you seek out any like therapy or medication help? 

Ashley: I started looking around my area for Christian counselors or Christian therapists, and I found one, but she didn’t really treat OCD.

This was actually before I really was self-diagnosed with OCD. I thought maybe it was OCD and I talked to her about it and she kind of brushed it off. So that one didn’t really work out and I just moved on. It would’ve been helpful if I was diagnosed a little bit prior to, but I started Googling more in my area around the time, so this was early 2024 when I really knew I had it, and I just could not find a Christian counselor or therapist that dealt with OCD around where I lived.

So I just kept informing myself with all the resources online at that point, and a lot of Ted Whittick stuff. I think I tried to find some books, and then it was in June of 2024 that I found your podcast. I just searched in Spotify, Christian, OCD. I was pretty desperate at that point because I hadn’t really gotten a ton of help.

I talked to my mom a lot. I’m very close with my mom, so I would tell her about it and then my husband, but I needed a little more so, so then I found your podcast. In the first episodes I started listening to, I remember like perfectly, I was cleaning out the basement and I found your podcasts and. I started listening to the personal stories ’cause I’m like, okay, that’s just where I went first and I started listening.

One of the first ones was Michael K. And it was so helpful for me. It was so encouraging to hear other people walking through and hearing it from themselves, all the things that they had struggled with. So I just started there and I bought, um, Michael K’s book and at that point, that was just last summer.

I would take that book to a coffee shop and I would read it and highlight it. It was kind of like a form of therapy for me, and when I read that book, it felt like someone was speaking my own language, like for the first time. That was a huge help. My mom actually purchased the book too, to read it with me, so I did have some great support, although I didn’t have a counselor or anybody yet in your podcast.

I listened to tons and tons of episodes on it, so I was getting so much information from that and the book and that alone, being able to identify what this thing was. OCD, and then for knowledge. So informing myself how OCD works and just reading and listening to a lot of the personal stories. So much healing for me came from that.

And even my husband was able to tell just a huge difference. And the first thing I noticed is just. The things that once brought me so much internal anxiety and turmoil and would affect me through the whole day. That was lessening. The anxiety levels were beginning to go down, but at that point, this is like kind of getting into the fall last year.

I still notice that even though I know what it is now, it’s still really hard to resist it. 

Carrie: Tricky. 

Ashley: Even though I know God loves me, he’s confirmed to me. I don’t know how many times Jesus has helped me and helped me to know I belong to him. Yet when this comes up, when I get triggered by my theme, I can’t shake it.

Like it was still really hard to shake it. So that was really frustrating. But that’s when I started. Hearing a little bit through your podcast about the ICBT training, I then decided I think I need to pursue this. I think this next level of just information and therapy, I think this could really help with this portion.

I listened to your podcast with Crystal Probes, I think her name is, and she talked about how ICBT helped her be able to shut off those mental compulsions, and that’s a lot of what I dealt with. So I decided to give it a try. And then fast forward to, I took your 12 week. ICBT training and learned so much about it and it helped me so much.

Carrie: That’s awesome. That’s a really great testimony. I’ll hear from people probably on a weekly basis, like looking for Christian OCD therapist in my state, or I’m in this area and I’m trying to. Reach out and find people, and it’s a challenge just to find OCD specialists, but then it’s an extra challenge to try to find someone who’s a strong believer and you feel like, I can’t go explain this to someone else who’s not a believer, because they’re just not gonna get the level of intensity and severity that I feel about this issue.

Ashley: And also for me, that was the first thing when I found your podcast is I’m like, okay. She says she’s a Christian, so I just wanna listen and see where she’s at. And that’s what made me feel safe. Obviously with someone who struggles with scrupulosity, the Lord is very important to them, so you wanna make sure the source that the information’s coming from.

At least for me, I wanted them to share the same faith that I. And that made me feel very safe and that’s why I also felt safe listening to Ted Wiig because he is a pastor as well. It is very hard to find, I feel like, so I’m very thankful to my dear resources. 

Carrie: What modules of ICBT did you find most helpful for you?

Ashley: Yes, there was definitely a lot. Honestly, there’s parts of each one that was so helpful, and I’ll just start off by saying like, overall, just to give someone an idea who doesn’t know much about it, it helped for me to disarm OCDs threats and what made OCD seem so convincing. The ICBT helped me. Disarm all of that, which then makes it much easier to just deflect or ignore when it comes up.

Don’t get me wrong, I still struggle at times. I really believe it’s a journey and a process to retrain your brain to think differently. It was nine years for me of living really in a state of fear and my brain thinking a certain way. So I think it takes a lot of practice to undo all of that, but it’s not like an overnight thing, but it is like a healing process and journey.

There’s 12 modules and they kind of build upon each other, and I haven’t really looked at my notes since the spring when I took the class. I just remembered a lot, but going back to look at all the notes was really helpful just to gimme a refresh again. The one thing though, without even looking at my notes that helped me was from module two, which is just kind of figuring out the reasoning behind and the logic behind OCD.

The course teaches that OCD will use facts, rules. Hearsay past experience and the possibility of things to all kind of get all of this evidence that you really need to be afraid of this thing. So to take one of those possibility piece, the Bible has these warning scriptures about apo from the faith.

That’s a possibility that that could happen to somebody if you read it, if you’re interpreting that way. And then it will just take all of these. Facts and things to make it seem real to you. When I was able to break down what OCD was using or past experience is another one I backslid, and that’s what OCD would latch onto for me.

Oh, well that past experience that you backslid, that means you could have fallen away permanently from the faith for each person. It will take certain things just to try to make it seem real. Once you’re able to identify those. You understand why the OCD feels so convincing to you. So that was a helpful piece for me.

Another helpful piece was from module five when I learned that OCD isn’t 100% imaginary. It’s hard because OCD does take real things that happen in the world. Oh, this person, look at you knew that person and they once were a believer, and look it, they’re not following the Lord that could happen to you.

So it takes all these things that are real situations, but it makes it true for you, which is not. 

Carrie: That’s the imaginary piece. I think people get like really offended by that. When they first hear it, they’re like, what do you mean? This is all in my head? It’s like, no, that’s not what we’re saying. We’re not saying that you’re making this up.

It does feel really, really real. But the idea is, like you said, OCD is taking like maybe a present moment, uncertainty, and then blowing it up into all of the futuristic thinking that happens. The imagination pieces of like, oh no, I’m gonna be separated from God. Or, oh no, I’m gonna lose my family ’cause I’m not following Jesus.

I’m gonna be over here. Just can go run the gamut of all kinds of what if stories, and so we’re saying it’s like that’s where OCD really misuses your imagination and kind of just hijacks and takes over and creates all these negative scenarios. 

Ashley: Yeah. Once you understand that it is a hundred percent imaginary in my case.

There’s freedom in that because what God says about me is true, and I can live in that place what OCD is saying, and that’s for anybody’s theme. It’s very freeing to not have to live in the bondage of what OCD is saying is true for you, whether that’s fear of contamination, fear of sickness, whatever the fear is for the person.

That was helpful. I don’t have to live by what OCD is saying. It’s not real. I can live in the truth over here, and that’s where freedom is and that’s where freedom from fear is. So that was very helpful. 

Carrie: Do you feel like it’s like the Wizard of Oz, it’s like this big scary loud thing and then what we’re doing with I CCB T is like, let me show you the tricks.

Like let me show you the sound effects. Let me show you the lighting. Let me pull back the curtain. Like there’s really just the guy back here like running some levers and all this kind of stuff. 

Ashley: And then it’s like all your worst fears of what you think is so scary, it’s not even true. So, yeah, I a hundred percent think that’s a perfect picture of what OCD is like.

And it’s so crazy because people that struggle with the OCD, it is so real to them and it creates such turmoil, but it’s not a real threat in reality. Whatever OCD is trying to lie to you about and say, but it’s so convincing to the person struggling with it. I just so sympathize with anybody dealing with it because it is really hard.

Carrie: Yeah. And honestly, like one news story can just spiral people out. One Bible 

Ashley: verse for me, in the past, it was one verse that would just spiral me out, and you’re living and your whole day is ruined, or your whole day is spent ruminating on that thing, and it’s just stealing so much away from the person.

It’s really hard to be present, to have joy, to have peace. When you have that all going on in your mind. 

Carrie: This is something that I’m really thinking about a lot and as the more that I teach this, the more I’m trying to incorporate, I Ccbt talks about sense data as believers, like we have the Holy Spirit, we have a connection with God.

I know you did a lot of like internal checking and like searching and things like that before with in a compulsive nature, but what do you feel like you clinging to as. Spiritual sense data. Like I know that this is true, that I have a relationship with Christ and I can stand on this versus like what OCD is telling me 

Ashley: the word of God.

It says, thy word is a lamp to my feet and a light to my path. So even in those darkest times. And if my feelings weren’t matching what the Bible was telling me, I clung to the Bible. I clung to God’s word in his promises because that is true no matter what we’re feeling. And that’s true for any believer going through any type of suffering.

And that was my rock through all of it, even if I did it in perfectly. Even if the Lord will never leave you nor forsake you. But I had doubt going on because I was experiencing such a storm of fear. And all this OCD, so it was obviously, I could never a hundred percent say I believed, with no doubt, but Jesus says we need fate the size of a mustard seed, and I would just cling to his promises.

And so his word was really what kept me grounded. And there’s so many Bible verses that have meant so much to me through those times about his keeping power for the believer. That really helped me. 

Carrie: I like what you said earlier too, about Hosea. If we really read the Old Testament prophets, like we see God’s heart for people, it’s like, Hey, you’re not doing what I told you to do.

I, like, I’m reading through Isaiah right now and he talks about like this vineyard, I planted this vineyard and like I really wanted it to go well and like produce some good grapes, but all the grapes are sour. You know, because they’re not following. The Lord and, oh, you’re doing all these religious activities, you’re throwing these festivals, but your heart’s all wrong.

You’re not caring about poor people in your community and so forth. And it, there’s a very stark contrast because God will say, Hey, you’re not doing these things. But it always goes back to this hopeful message of like, Hey, I’m going to. Redeem you. I’m gonna bring you back in, like you’re gonna be my people.

Almost like it’s just this back and forth, almost like dance of sin and salvation or redemption and it’s just really, really beautiful. I don’t think that we read those or focus on those enough in the American church in my opinion, because they’re really, can be kind of scary, I think sometimes to read some of those things, but then also recognizing like God’s truly heartbroken when we.

Are far from him and Jose is just a really beautiful picture of God’s redemption. So I love that. I think there’s so many stories in the Bible where we can see how God’s hand is in different situations, and it’s like we can see our story and other people’s stories too. When we read those, it’s like, oh, I get that now.

Maybe a little bit deeper. I relate to that, or I’ve had these experiences. 

Ashley: For sure, and one of the things I’d like to say is the worst points of the ooc DI told people close to me is like, I wouldn’t wish this upon my worst enemy of how tick it can feel when you’re going through that. But coming out into the light, which the Lord has graciously brought me, there are times I’m like, well, I ever get over this.

And he has brought me out into the light. And I used to think because year after year would go by, like there’s something wrong with this. Sometimes the suffering that we go through or the test that the Lord allows in our lives, they go longer than we think sometimes. And the one really good gift I feel like OCD has taught me is the depths of God’s long suffering for us and his patience and forbearance towards us because there were so many times I felt like I was on the cusp of like, am I about to lose my salvation here?

That battle I went through, the Lord endures with us and he’s so long suffering, and had I never gone through this, I would’ve never seen it in that way. Another verse that really helped me through that time was it talks about Jesus in Isaiah 42 that a bruised read, he will not break and a faintly burning wick, he will not snuff out.

There were so many times going through OCDI felt like barely holding on like that little bruised reed or that burning wick that’s about to go out. But he will not sn that out. That’s not the character of the Lord. And so that helped me in my time of suffering just to know how gracious and gentle the Lord is in that.

It’s interesting ’cause you think of the Old Testament and a lot of people will think of, that’s more of a picture of God’s judgment and there is that in the Old Testament, but when I was going through my hardest time after backsliding, that’s where God brought me. There’s so many instances of his love for his unfaithful people in the Old Testament, and that’s what really helped me get through that time.

And then I gotta, I have to, and then I’ll say really quick, I have to apply it now. So I’m obviously, we all mess up day to day. None of us are perfect. So that’s been a huge struggle. Okay, I got over, I didn’t lose my salvation. But when I fail, when I do sin, I can be really hard on myself. I think still with that tendency, having kind of sensitive conscience, but we need the gospel.

Just the hope of the gospel, like being able to preach the truth to yourself every day, even over the little things. OCD has kind of, actually, another good thing that came out of it is just I can never make up for my sin or any of that. I have to just thrust myself upon what Jesus has done for me. I just have to abandon all of that.

Worry and guilt and compulsive stuff that wants to come up even over the day-to-day stuff when I mess up and I have to just trust Jesus work for me. Of course, we’re to grow in holiness and all these things, but it’s that trust that saved us at first that we keep having to just go back to as a believer as.

Carrie: That’s good. There are faith components to this. It’s like at some level, like I do need to be able to rest and trust. Tell us a little bit about, what did you think about that contrast between like the feared possible self and the real self and like how did you process that as you were going through ICBT?

Ashley: ICBT taught me? About the feared self or surreal self, which I never considered when I was first learning about OCD and OCD lied to me for years trying to get me to believe the feared self was the real version of me. And so that just paused me to act out the compulsions. To make sure I wouldn’t become that person.

And then just being able to see that as a false label that OCD was putting on me and realize that who I am in Christ is the true version. And as Christians we’re given a new identity in Christ. But then to separate that and realize that what OCD was saying about me or anyone else who struggles with it isn’t true was just real light bulb moment for me.

I can now celebrate the gifts that God’s given me with much more confidence knowing who God’s created me to be. Disregard any of the lies that OCD is trying to put on me. So once we learned in Icbt about the different types of the peered self, that was super helpful so that I could identify kind of where I fell into and then just say, no, this is not who God created me to be.

He does have purposes for me and I don’t have to get all caught up and tied up in believing those lies. So that was super helpful for me to learn about. 

Carrie: That’s awesome. What does recovery look like for you now? 

Ashley: For me, going back sometimes and like looking over my notes took a lot of, just reminding myself.

I feel like, like I said, I feel like after going through ICBT and learning all of this, it’s a lot quicker for me to recover. So if OCD comes and attacks me versus a year ago knowing what I know now, I can like bounce back quicker. It doesn’t mean I don’t still fall at times or get sucked into something.

I have the tools to get me out quicker. That’s kind of what I guess I’d describe right now is looking like for me. And again, it hasn’t been like super long. It hasn’t even been a full year yet. And then just talking about it with people around me that know. And it’s helpful to share what you’ve learned, at least for me in ICBT with someone so they can kind of understand it and then bounce it off of them.

When maybe you’re struggling or when you just need to talk about it with someone. It’s just an ongoing process of just reminding myself of what’s true. 

Carrie: Yeah, I think that’s really good. When you’re able to teach something to someone else, it helps you solidify it for yourself as well. So as encourage people, it’s like find somebody else that you can talk to about this to spouse or best friend or whoever, to just say, this is what I’m learning about OCD and how it affects me and how I can say no to it basically.

For sure. Well, thank you for sharing with us today. And I also hope that this gives some hope to the moms out there that are struggling or people wanting to have children. I think a lot of times OCD people can get really wrapped up in, oh, maybe I’m not gonna be able to be a good mom if I have OCD and. I just really want us to debunk that, miss together.

So if there’s anything you wanna say to the moms out there, 

Ashley: I would love to. I have three children and there’s a bit of a gap between my second and my third, and that was because I was struggling a lot with OCD and I really wanted to make sure what hindered me for a while was. The OCD. That was really the only, I wanted a third child, but the only thing that was keeping me back from that was my struggle.

And there was a lot of prayer involved, like, should we do this? Should we go ahead and try for another child? But the Lord brought me to a place of healing and hope. To know that yes, I can. God’s put this desire in my heart and I trust him. And the birth of our third child is such a hopeful story of that alone because there were times when I cried and I just didn’t know if I would ever be able to handle it or to have another child.

And God answered, I cried out to God and he answered my prayer and he did bring healing into my life. And hope our third baby is definitely an answer to prayer for that. Another side note of hope. I just wanna give to people struggling with panic attacks. ’cause that was also part of my story and a very difficult time for me.

It was months of being very afraid of driving in a car, which I had never experienced in my life before. And it can be so intense, but God fully healed me, brought me through that. Just a month ago, we took a vacation and we were on a seven hour car trip. Which at the time when I was struggling with panic attacks, I wasn’t sure I could ever do anything like that again.

So on this seven hour car ride a month ago, I was totally at peace, no hint of anything. And I realized like I got a bit emotional because my brain had fully healed from that, that trigger of being in the car. And it was, I think, less than a year that my brain fully a hundred percent healed. And the timeframe is different for everybody, but I just want people to know that is possible to heal from.

Carrie: Yeah. Panic attacks are very treatable and they can get attached to driving if people are afraid of having panic attack in the car, if they did have one in the car, things like that. 

Ashley: Lots of hope. And getting to the root of OCDI think is possible. I know sometimes. People aren’t sure I experienced, at least you can get to the root.

You can help where it starts from and live in freedom and the lord’s goodness he has for you. I know I experienced it and I definitely want anyone else out there that’s struggling and suffering to know that there is hope. You can get to the root of it and find healing. 

Carrie: If you are finding yourself needing extra help on your OCD journey and it seems like everywhere you turn, you just can’t seem to get it, please come join me in the Empowered Mind live training.

I would love to have you there. I would love to walk alongside you in supporting you with crafting your obsessional story, examining the OCD reasoning process. Looking at your feared self versus your real self, like Ashley discovered. I want 2026 to be the year that you declare that you are going to walk in freedom and the abundant life that God has called you to.

It’s not gonna be easy. There’s probably some times where it’s not gonna be fun, but allow me to walk with you on this journey. I know that it will change your life and we have a risk-free 30 day money back guarantee because I believe so strongly in this. Go to carriebock/training to sign up today, and you can find that link in our show notes as well.

Until next time, may you be comforted by God’s great love for you. Christian faith and OCD is a production of By the Well Counseling. Opinions given by our guest are their own and do not necessarilyreflect the views of myself or By the Well counseling. This podcast is for informational purposes only, and should not be a substitute for seeking mental health treatment in your area.